Formula 1 2013

[Roy]

I agree that Lewis was lucky to have them pull rank as he was far more wounded it seems for pace then Rosberg, But the thing to consider was they did have a good dice and Lewis fought back re-overtaking for what...two laps? So they were allowed to have a play...and then it seems Brawn jumped on air and said enough suspecting as you would that lewis woudl try and hunt down Rosberg and chase him and very well be a dnf for fuel.

I can see Lewis pushign too hard despite being low on fuel ...so can understand why they did it. I dont like it but understand it. Like RBR, I understand it, I dont like it ...especially as one played ball and the other didnt.

[hrd-hr30]

Lewis too dumb to save fuel if he's told he won't make it to the end if his teammate is in front of him?

Wow, I thought I was Lewis' biggest hater! lol

Edited March 27, 2013 by hrd-hr30

[tweety bird]

Lewis too dumb to save fuel if he's told he won't make it to the end if his teammate is in front of him?

Wow, I thought I was Lewis' biggest hater! lol

you're not even close to being the biggest lewis hater in this thread..

[sh@un]

Shaun, I certainly dont believe that MW will ever take the WDC crown, but Im hoping that he comes in front of SV in the points by years end.

Also, Id be pretty certain another 'decent' team would arrange a seat for him for a year, but most likely scenario is retirement at years end, yes.

I guess the Lotus option is still a decent drive if anything should come of it, but who knows

[Roy]

I would put money on the fact that Lewis would push his luck to the point that it would be detrimental to his own result if he didnt have very strong people on the pit wall

[Nee-san]

Christian horner is a whiney little bitch.

Always has been, Helmet Marko really runs that team and he acts like he has three quarters of fraser island in his vagina.

Hamilton + 10 points in my book for being a good sport and his attitude towards the Rosberg situation, and honestly I can't usually stand the guy.

You can't Cherry pick instances where Webber did this or that so it's ok for Vettel.

All you need to look at is the long standing attitude in the team towards Webber especially in regards to Vettel.

[mad082]

Yeah that is my biggest gripe with vettel. most if the time the team favour him. The one time they ask him to play second fiddle he ignores it.

I think webber has the right to be pissed.

But don't get me wrong, i would've preffered to see them properly race to the end, which would've meant webber not turning the engine down to start with, so he may not have gotten caught until later in the race anyway, by which time vettel's tyres may have started to go off a bit.

I've never been a fan of team orders, from back in the day when barichello was told to pull over and let schummacher past. There are the odd exception (such as a last lap battle where the team doesn't want them to bin the car, or if they are on totally different pit strategies, so they tell a driver to hold for a lap or 2)

[Roy]

You can't Cherry pick instances where Webber did this or that so it's ok for Vettel.

All you need to look at is the long standing attitude in the team towards Webber especially in regards to Vettel.

That is something that Jonathan Noble on Autosport has commented on..

"Red Bull played its part in creating how Vettel behaved on Sunday, for his actions were not those of a disgruntled driver fed up with constantly being crushed. This was a man who has thrived, and become so central to the team that the line between his interests and those of the team have become completely blurred."

[sh@un]

^ I'm sure Vettel thinks the team are spending 300+ Mil per year just so he can collect wdc's

I would put money on the fact that Lewis would push his luck to the point that it would be detrimental to his own result if he didnt have very strong people on the pit wall

oh you know he would have caned that thing until the fuel pump was sucking on fumes if left to his own devices

[ctjet]

he is what we used to call 'a race car driver'

this cruise and collect formula is embarrassing

[hrd-hr30]

Hamilton + 10 points in my book for being a good sport and his attitude towards the Rosberg situation, and honestly I can't usually stand the guy.

Hamilton's were corocodile tears - if you don't think he was over the moon to get on the podium in his second race for Mercedes, and more importantly than that, know that the team will protect him heavily over his team mate even when there's a chance his faster team mate could pressure the other guys leading the race, and when there's a chance Lewis wouldn't even make it to the line, you're kidding yourself!

If Hamilton honestly didn't think he deserved the podium and that the right thing would have been for Nico to get that 3rd place he clearly would have without such adament and stern protection from the team, why didn't he do the "right thing", and avoid the embarassment and guilt he claims he was feeling? It was no net cost to the team in terms of the constructers points and would only have cost him 3 points. Then he could have slept easy knowing he didn't steal 3rd place from his more deserving team-mate. Bollocks - his time with Button at McLaren shows he needs all the help he can get to beat his team-mates let alone his competitors. Those 3 points are what keeps him a clear 3rd in the WDC, just 1 point behind Webber and 3 points ahead of Filipe. No way he's sorry he stole those points.

[hrd-hr30]

That is something that Jonathan Noble on Autosport has commented on..

"Red Bull played its part in creating how Vettel behaved on Sunday, for his actions were not those of a disgruntled driver fed up with constantly being crushed. This was a man who has thrived, and become so central to the team that the line between his interests and those of the team have become completely blurred."

Well, its a comment, but its not a very insightful one. Did anyone think Vettel was a disgruntled driver? what was the point of that. Is it less bad to break team orders if your disgruntled?

Vettel didn't hurt the team's interest either. We may think he put the teams interests at risk by racing, but I'm 100% sure that in his mind there was no risk - racing is what he does. Its all he does. Its all he's ever done. I'm sure in the cockpit he has 100% faith in his ability and does not consider passing a teammate a risky thing to do. You have the old golden rule still etched into the back of every race driver's mind; 'don't take your teammate out', helping keep it cleaner and less risky than fighting any other opponent.

I thnk this bloke makes alot more sense http://willthef1journo.wordpress.com/2013/03/26/the-smiling-assassin/

Finally Nikki Lauder says something I can agree with!

and for something a bit lighter, in a scathing kind of way... http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/formula-one-launches-race-unfixing-probe-2013032663802

Edited March 27, 2013 by hrd-hr30

[89CAL]

None of this will matter when Kimi wins the WDC

[Roy]

Well, its a comment, but its not a very insightful one. Did anyone think Vettel was a disgruntled driver? what was the point of that. Is it less bad to break team orders if your disgruntled?

That aritcile says much the same thing about Vettel. You need to read the whole article, it was an intersting spin on how Horner and RBR are so very different in reacting, or more to the point not reacting to events within the team

LOL, did you read this statement in your link ? "Webber’s disgust stemmed from the fact there had been a pre-race promise and so he had been taken by surprise by Vettel’s duplicity"

[wolverine]

he is what we used to call 'a race car driver'

Race car driver and metrosexual.

At least Merc has two drivers that leave no stone unturned in their preparation before each race....on their appearance.

[hrd-hr30]

Yeah I saw that Roy. I said I think he makes alot more sense, I didn't say I agree 100% with everything he said

I think the whole 'agreement before the race' is a mistake. The pre race agreement they have is the team will make the call on what to do after the last round of pit stops, and the drivers agree to follow it. That's the trust Vettel broke, not a pre-race agreement that Mark would be given the win if he was ahead at the last stop.

This explains the situation and conflicting interests well, and how some of these things that are supposed to be designed to make the show more interesting are actually detracting from it... http://www.racecar-engineering.com/blogs/cottonballs-team-orders/

hell, even's Bernies making sense for once: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/f1news/9953272/Bernie-Ecclestone-hits-out-at-Red-Bulls-team-orders-and-warns-Mark-Webber-may-seek-revenge-on-Sebastian-Vettel.html

jeezus - if I agree with Bernie and Lauder, maybe I am miles off track!

Edited March 28, 2013 by hrd-hr30

[djr81]

Well, its a comment, but its not a very insightful one. Did anyone think Vettel was a disgruntled driver? what was the point of that. Is it less bad to break team orders if your disgruntled?

Vettel didn't hurt the team's interest either. We may think he put the teams interests at risk by racing, but I'm 100% sure that in his mind there was no risk - racing is what he does. Its all he does. Its all he's ever done. I'm sure in the cockpit he has 100% faith in his ability and does not consider passing a teammate a risky thing to do. You have the old golden rule still etched into the back of every race driver's mind; 'don't take your teammate out', helping keep it cleaner and less risky than fighting any other opponent.

I thnk this bloke makes alot more sense http://willthef1journo.wordpress.com/2013/03/26/the-smiling-assassin/

Finally Nikki Lauder says something I can agree with!

and for something a bit lighter, in a scathing kind of way... http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/formula-one-launches-race-unfixing-probe-2013032663802

Well he did hurt the team interests - in the following ways.

By pushing the car hard (At a time when Webber had backed off under instruction) he stressed his engine and gearbox - both of which have more races to go. So he increases the likelihood of a grid penalty later on in the season.

By pushing hard he risked having Webber respond and the both of them losing out to Mercedes because of spent tyres.

He risked running into Webber.

He has caused/reinforced deep divisions in the team and diminished the team managers authority.

He has caused longer term damage to Red Bull's commercial interest because it now shows they can neither control their lead driver nor respect their other driver.

Plus he has reinforced to the world that he is a complete dick and who is going to buy Red Bull merch with his name on it?

[Roy]

..and Lauda is proving he is just another opinionated pork chop , much like Marko. Why would he come out and say he will speak to Ross and doesnt agree. He has no clue how to run a team, he is just a friggin tourist who rocks up and talks dribble. Looks at his last formal dabble in F1 at Jaguar...he did so well there didnt he

[mattie4270]

The best thing thats come out of all this is,WOW its gunna be a cracker of a season!

[djr81]

The best thing thats come out of all this is,WOW its gunna be a cracker of a season!

Wuh, what? No one has the pace of the Red Bull's. It is going to be boring as fk.

Also why didnt channel 10 show the Can Am during the Melbourne GP. W@nkers.