Formula 1 2013

[hkspwr]

Excellent, cheers for the help.

[JAS-25T]

Pirelli list reasons for spectacular British Grand Prix tyre failures, point finger at teams

• By William Dale
• SPEED
• July 03, 2013 9:09AM

"What happened at Silverstone was completely unexpected and it was the first time that anything like this has ever occurred in more than a century of Pirelli in motorsport," Paul Hembrey, the company's motorsport director, said.

He called for more in-season testing, as well as pre-season testing in more suitable climates to ensure tyres could be developed in the kinds of conditions faced during the F1 season.

"I'd like to re-emphasise the fact that the 2013 range of tyres, used in the correct way, is completely safe.

"While we wait for a change in the rules, we will introduce tyres that are easier to manage."

Hembrey later clarified Pirelli's statement, pointing out that while the teams were partly responsible for the failures they have also been supportive in the company's search for answers.

"Contrary to the impression that some people have formed, I would like to underline the collaboration and support that we are receiving from the teams, drivers, FIA and FOM.

"In no way are we intending to create arguments or attack anybody. We have taken our responsibilities upon ourselves as our press release indicates.

"But not having full control over all the elements that impact on the use of the tyres, we need everybody’s contribution.

"With regard to this, we are receiving the full support of all the parties involved, for which we are very grateful."

Read more: http://www.foxsports.com.au/motor-sports/formula-one/pirelli-list-reasons-for-spectacular-british-grand-prix-tyre-failures-point-finger-at-teams/story-e6frf3zl-1226673541316#ixzz2XwyEZ0di

[ctjet]

"I'd like to re-emphasise the fact that the 2013 range of tyres, used in the correct way, is completely safe"

... what does that even mean?!?

nobody is using them as a fcuking hat, do a better job you degenerates

[djr81]

Means some people were supposedly fitting them backwards and running low pressures.

[Kinks]

Means some people were supposedly fitting them backwards and running low pressures.

Which would be an interesting discussion with inside knowledge. Everyone who drives a road car knows on a basic level that if you underinflate your tyres you will a) cause uneven wear across the tyre face and b) risk having the tire fail due to overstressing the carcass with flexing due to low pressure. However, on a road car, you would obviously have insufficient grip at this point because the tread face has uneven pressure on the road (the outer edges have more pressure and it "bows" up in the middle, that's why it wears unevenly). On an F1 car you don't want this to happen because you have less grip. So the construction of the F1 tyres must be such that they don't bow up like this and running lower and lower pressure keeps giving you bigger and bigger contact patches and more grip. It must also not be overheating the tread face due to flexing or, again, teams would simply run more pressure to make sure the tyre surface doesn't overheat.

If Pirelli have designed a tyre that gives more grip with lower and lower pressures and then "recommended" to teams that they run X pressure then they're still to blame. The tyre should be self-regulating in its design such that running it out of bounds of intended pressures is a detriment to grip, therefore teams won't try and push the limits and cause an unsafe situation. So my opinion is still that Pirelli are idiots, because if the above is true they've dangled a carrot in front of the teams and told them not to eat it.

[djr81]

Which would be an interesting discussion with inside knowledge. Everyone who drives a road car knows on a basic level that if you underinflate your tyres you will a) cause uneven wear across the tyre face and b) risk having the tire fail due to overstressing the carcass with flexing due to low pressure. However, on a road car, you would obviously have insufficient grip at this point because the tread face has uneven pressure on the road (the outer edges have more pressure and it "bows" up in the middle, that's why it wears unevenly). On an F1 car you don't want this to happen because you have less grip. So the construction of the F1 tyres must be such that they don't bow up like this and running lower and lower pressure keeps giving you bigger and bigger contact patches and more grip. It must also not be overheating the tread face due to flexing or, again, teams would simply run more pressure to make sure the tyre surface doesn't overheat.

If Pirelli have designed a tyre that gives more grip with lower and lower pressures and then "recommended" to teams that they run X pressure then they're still to blame. The tyre should be self-regulating in its design such that running it out of bounds of intended pressures is a detriment to grip, therefore teams won't try and push the limits and cause an unsafe situation. So my opinion is still that Pirelli are idiots, because if the above is true they've dangled a carrot in front of the teams and told them not to eat it.

Im not sure all that is correct but the conclusion is unduly harsh. What you have to remember is that there is fk all in the way of testing anymore. Which affects Pirelli massively. The different cars use the same tyres very differently. Up until recently the MB ate them. Lotus, FI & the cheatin pseudo Italian team were gentle on the tyres so prevented Pirelli from implementing the changes they knew would stop the issues they had in England.

So blame, in no particular order, the FIA for their dumb regulations, the teams (three of them anyway) for their selfishness and also Pirelli for making shit tyres.

[hrd-hr30]

I'm with Kinks.

In summary Pirelli are saying everything you are doing with the tyres is wrong - camber, pressures, swapping sides with our assymetric tyre (they mean assymetric and directional). Must be alot of tyre engineers in the teams with NFI eh? The name of the game these days has been to make the tyres last during the race. I'll bet my left testie that the pressures and the cambers and even the fact teams are swapping them to the other sides, is all about maximising the tyre's life and performance over the longest period of time, and prevent overheating them or working them too hard. They're not pushing boundaries looking for maximum single lap performance, which will risk their tyres going off in the race. Everything the teams are doing with regard to setup is to take care of the tyres! It's all they ever talk about!

I'm not buying the Pirelli line.

Edited July 3, 2013 by hrd-hr30

[hrd-hr30]

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-pirellis-analysis-of-silverstone/

Pirelli’s analysis of Silverstone:

...

The logical conclusion is that it is essential for tires with the performance and technical sophistication of the 2013 range to be regulated and carefully controlled by Pirelli itself. In order to ensure the optimal functioning of the tires, the Italian firm would need real-time data from the teams regarding fundamental parameters such as pressure, temperature and camber angles. While waiting for new regulations that would permit Pirelli access to this data, vital for the development and management of these state-of-the-art tires...

I have coffee on my keyboard...

Edited July 4, 2013 by hrd-hr30

[89CAL]

The problem is that certain teams (everyone knows who they are) complained that the tyres were not good enough and wore out to quick, so Perelli started to change their plans for the year.

It's really unfair for the teams that have built there car to suit the tyres like Ferrari and Lotus. And I also believe this is why the tyres are currently in the worst state they have been. No issues at all last year when everyone was happy enough. This year when the teams have started forcing Perelli into making changes its started to go wrong.

I'm not defending Perelli completely. I'm just saying the blame doesn't lie completely with them, theres no suprise in the championship when you look at whose out in front again when you see that complaints about the tyre have eased from Red Bull. Also this weekend was as far as I'm concerned - proof that Mercedes at least gained something out of their slap on the wrist test.

[MattR]

i feel a bit sorry for lotus, they built the car around the tyres and now will get penalised for it. if they are going to use the 2012 tyres from hungry will Mclaren bring the old car back out?

[hrd-hr30]

Lotus have been falling behind anyway. Ferrari suffered blowouts like the rest of them. Red Bull are the ones doing the best job overall on the new tyres and they're the most outspoken critics of them.

From Hungary onwards it's last year's construction with this year's compounds. The degradation issues teams had performance isues with are to do with the compounds, so it's not a total loss for Lotus or Ferrari, although the Kevlar belted tyres will run cooler which will probably help Mercedes, Red Bull and Ferrari.

McLaren should wheel the 2012 car out regardless of what tyres are being used!

Mercedes performance last weekend can't really be attributed to the controversial test - the tyres used at the test were next year's tyres and the kevlar belted tyre everyone's been testing in practice at Montreal and Silverstone, not the tyres they used in the race and which Mercedes were the first to blow up! Hardly conclusive proof they benefited from tyre testing...

Those tyres will be used as an interim measure this weekend.

Edited July 4, 2013 by hrd-hr30

[89CAL]

Lotus are doing a great job for the amount of money I bet they have available compared to the other big teams

Although im biased

[sh@un]

and McLaren are doing a piss-poor job considering the money, talent and experience involved

very Williams-esque

[Roy]

Webber to win Zetools home GP just to piss him off

[sh@un]

[JAS-25T]

oh gawd.

so many memories of 2011 race. wish I was there again.

webche on pole. finishes 3rd and picks alonso up who rides on the side pod, due to running out of fuel.

[ctjet]

and McLaren are doing a piss-poor job considering the money, talent and experience involved

plz explain plz

[djr81]

plz explain plz

I think he means in the design office.

[ctjet]

You mean the office that took the fastest car in the field and tuned it into a jalopy that cant even break into Q3, is running 6th in the WCC and is 182 points behind the leader with more than half the season still remaining?

That design office?

Perhaps that is a talent... who am I to judge.

[djr81]

You mean the office that took the fastest car in the field and tuned it into a jalopy that cant even break into Q3, is running 6th in the WCC and is 182 points behind the leader with more than half the season still remaining?

That design office?

Perhaps that is a talent... who am I to judge.

But its not that easy is it? If last years car was on the pace they would run last years car. Like Williams would. This years is quicker - its just that everyone else is quicker again.

Which is not to say both cars dont suck teh balls.- clearly they do. Just that every team will produce a dog of a car every so often. Trick is to limit the number of times it happens and not let it destroy your whole business. Hoping theMcLaren Honda & the Willams Mercedes will be better.