Fugly Rego Stickers Gone

[The Bogan]

That may be your responsibility, and now I borrow your car, you inform me it's all valid (and it is) three days later I still have your car but rego lapses, you forget about it and don't re register it. There is no law saying you have to cone and tell me (and therefore nothing to penalize you for) and it was reasonable for me to assume the car was still registered.

The police can only fine you for things that are written into legislation.

Driving an unregistered and uninsured vehicle is an offence attracting infringement notice fines of at least $1060 ($530 for unregistered and $530 for uninsured). If the matter goes to court, the maximum fine is $2200 for unregistered and $5500 for uninsured. The penalties for heavy vehicle offences are higher and may also attract demerit points. See unregistered vehicle penalties for more information.

http://www.rta.nsw.g...cles/index.html

Im under the impression that if you borrow a car you need to ensure the car is safe and legal, i.e the driver is responcable in ensuring the car has rego/insurance and is safe to drive.

As the owner of a vehicle you are responcable for its use and you can be fined.

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/unregisteredvehicles/unregistered_vehicle_penalties.html

[MBS206]

Driving an unregistered and uninsured vehicle is an offence attracting infringement notice fines of at least $1060 ($530 for unregistered and $530 for uninsured). If the matter goes to court, the maximum fine is $2200 for unregistered and $5500 for uninsured. The penalties for heavy vehicle offences are higher and may also attract demerit points. See unregistered vehicle penalties for more information.

http://www.rta.nsw.g...cles/index.html

Im under the impression that if you borrow a car you need to ensure the car is safe and legal, i.e the driver is responcable in ensuring the car has rego/insurance and is safe to drive.

As the owner of a vehicle you are responcable for its use and you can be fined.

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/unregisteredvehicles/unregistered_vehicle_penalties.html

Mark, read the cutout of the legislation that I posted.

You can not be held liable for driving an unregistered vehicle if it is reasonable for you to assume the vehicle is registered. IE the owner said yes it is, but it really isn't.

Don't worry about what is on the RTA website, read the actual legislation and it gives you all the conditions under which you can't be fined for driving an unregd vehicle.

[Daleo]

Mark, read the cutout of the legislation that I posted.

You can not be held liable for driving an unregistered vehicle if it is reasonable for you to assume the vehicle is registered. IE the owner said yes it is, but it really isn't.

Don't worry about what is on the RTA website, read the actual legislation and it gives you all the conditions under which you can't be fined for driving an unregd vehicle.

I've been watching this subject with interest; especially after a discussion with a workmate the other day.

My workmates son was assisting a friend move house (son's friend is Police officer) and workmates son was asked to transport a car to the new home.

On the way; car was pulled for RBT and it was discovered to have no current rego.

A fine for $600 was issued to workmates son as he was driving an unregistered vehicle. The penalty notice carries no demerit points.

If the owner had been driving; the fine would have exceeded $2000 and would've included demerit points.

A fairly animated argument ensued, as the driver had been told that the car was fine, and he hadn't checked. The officer told him that it was HIS resposibility to ensure that any vehicle he is driving is registered and insured.

This flies in the face of your reasonable assumption theory.

The car was ordered to be locked & left and they were told to return with a trailer/tow truck to remove the car; if it was seen driving, it would be fined again.

The owner of the vehicle apparently tried to use his force contacts to have the fine rescinded; but was subsequently reprimanded by his superiors.

The final piece to this puzzle must be; that even when you check the rego details online, there is a disclaimer that absolves RMS of any responsibility should the information on their website be incorrect. Furthermore; it expressly forbids the use of any information from their website being used to mount any kind of legal defence.

TL;DR;

You are responsible for any vehicle you drive, but RMS is under no obligation to provide factual or legally binding information to assist you in doing so.

[MBS206]

I've been watching this subject with interest; especially after a discussion with a workmate the other day.

My workmates son was assisting a friend move house (son's friend is Police officer) and workmates son was asked to transport a car to the new home.

On the way; car was pulled for RBT and it was discovered to have no current rego.

A fine for $600 was issued to workmates son as he was driving an unregistered vehicle. The penalty notice carries no demerit points.

If the owner had been driving; the fine would have exceeded $2000 and would've included demerit points.

A fairly animated argument ensued, as the driver had been told that the car was fine, and he hadn't checked. The officer told him that it was HIS resposibility to ensure that any vehicle he is driving is registered and insured.

This flies in the face of your reasonable assumption theory.

The car was ordered to be locked & left and they were told to return with a trailer/tow truck to remove the car; if it was seen driving, it would be fined again.

The owner of the vehicle apparently tried to use his force contacts to have the fine rescinded; but was subsequently reprimanded by his superiors.

The final piece to this puzzle must be; that even when you check the rego details online, there is a disclaimer that absolves RMS of any responsibility should the information on their website be incorrect. Furthermore; it expressly forbids the use of any information from their website being used to mount any kind of legal defence.

TL;DR;

You are responsible for any vehicle you drive, but RMS is under no obligation to provide factual or legally binding information to assist you in doing so.

What you are told by the powers that be, and what is the actual law are to different things.

Depending on circumstances (how hechecked etc) a good traffic lawyer (or any lawyer that can mount an argument!) would have this squashed purely from that piece of legislation, often though people aren't game enough to buck the system hard enough.

Go and watch the video that's been posted in the import section and you'll start to see what I mean (caution it's a 50 minute video!)

[Daleo]

What you are told by the powers that be, and what is the actual law are to different things.

Depending on circumstances (how hechecked etc) a good traffic lawyer (or any lawyer that can mount an argument!) would have this squashed purely from that piece of legislation, often though people aren't game enough to buck the system hard enough.

Go and watch the video that's been posted in the import section and you'll start to see what I mean (caution it's a 50 minute video!)

I know exactly what you are saying, but engaging a good traffic solicitor isn't a free exercise, and is probably more than the fine.

Even if you fought this yourself; a day in court would cost you a days pay; and that's if the Police prosecutor even turns up, (which will result in the matter being deferred not dismissed) costing you another days pays.

You are arguing a point of law; and what SHOULD happen. I'm telling you what the Police WILL do.

It's not right; but they're doing it anyway.

How you fight it is up to you, but even getting the fine waived is going to cost you money.

This crap is EXACTLY the same as defecting cars on suspicion of a defect when they KNOW there is nothing defectable; but doing it anyway.

At least the sticker was a visual cue that you could use; now even the information that you are supposed to rely on carries NO legal weight.

I totally support the use of the ANPR cameras; this has to be the best use of technology to keep law abiding road users safe from unregistered arseholes ever.

ANPR is also being used to flag vehicles possibly being driven by unlicensed drivers, so the days of taking a chance driving whilst you are suspended; are over.

11,000 plates an hour in a country where an estimated 10-20% of vehicles are unregistered or being driven by unlicensed drivers is a GOOD thing.

[God_speed]

Some good points raised

Lapsed rego also doesnt discriminate; my boss got pulled up and fined for forgetting to renew his rego after a random plate check a while back; he was driving his Aston

[The Bogan]

From my experience in work place health and safqety law if you are in control of anything beit a bulldozer or or a shovel you are 100% accountable for it.

It all falls to the operator to ensure that you cover all rules and regulations.

And when it comes to rules and regulations there is more one place to find info, but if a dozen places say you can and one says you cannot then you cannot.

And even if you can only find things that support a issue, if there is any question in your mind you need to directly contact the relevant authority and plead your case prior to any activity.

And who is responsible, everyone that has anything to do with a action

All in all you need to cover your arse 100% or you will have a large pineapple shoved up it.

[GTR-N1]

Being fined for driving an unregistered vehicle - and then arguing innocence from responsibility is one thing.

But being injured whilst driving a car with an elapsed rego; henceforth, an elapsed CTP Inurance is another.

If your passengers are injured whilst in a car that has an elapsed CTP, do you think the insurance company is going to feel sorry and help out?

Becoming a paraplegic after an accident, and its ensuing consequences (of time, cost, perhaps pain and inconvenience), are going to far outweigh the cost of a farkin' fine.

Keep up your rego (with its prerequisite CTP) folks!

And remember:- Buying a grey import from an importer involves registration and CTP after compliance/blue slip. DO NOT DELAY THAT!!! EVERY DAY OF DELAY IS A RISK!!!

[The Bogan]

Being fined for driving an unregistered vehicle - and then arguing innocence from responsibility is one thing.

But being injured whilst driving a car with an elapsed rego; henceforth, an elapsed CTP Inurance is another.

If your passengers are injured whilst in a car that has an elapsed CTP, do you think the insurance company is going to feel sorry and help out?

Becoming a paraplegic after an accident, and its ensuing consequences (of time, cost, perhaps pain and inconvenience), are going to far outweigh the cost of a farkin' fine.

Keep up your rego (with its prerequisite CTP) folks!

And remember:- Buying a grey import from an importer involves registration and CTP after compliance/blue slip. DO NOT DELAY THAT!!! EVERY DAY OF DELAY IS A RISK!!!

Good points Terry, having to pay a fine or deal with problems that affect you is one thing, but being held responsible for the health and well-being of others greatly outweighs your own problems.

Cover all your bases or pay the consequences.