Red R35 Gtr At Pickles

[SS8_Gohan]

AlexCim:

Any measure of taxation as a % of x will see variation, i do not dispute that. But Wardski's claim was absurd, and proven to be so. Even if you look at different measures, you still find, on average, Australia is a low taxing country. It really is as simple as that.

As both yourself and Wardski are obviously not fond of Labor goverments, here is a report Treasury put together in 2006. Howard government; as it's quite evident from both of your posts that if i used current Treasury numbers you'll most likely call conspiracy. Or as Wardski puts it, worries what's going on in Canberra...

http://comparativeta...ive_Summary.asp

A few quotes from this report...

Australia has a low tax burden, both currently and historically. In 2003, Australia had the eighth lowest tax burden of the OECD-30 countries and has typically ranked in the bottom third of countries for the period since 1965.

We have already established this, but it's a good idea to get a broader picture. And as mentioned previously, as of 2011 stats, we could very well be the SECOND LOWEST ranked amongst the OECD-30. The trend has been down, not up.

Australia’s tax burden on individuals and payrolls (14.0 per cent of GDP) is significantly lower than the OECD-30 unweighted average (19.5 per cent)

Even on an 'individual' basis we are "significantly lower" than OECD average. Again, this would only have reduced given tax changes since the report.

Some measures we are middle of the road, some slightly higher than average, but as the report states: "...tax as a proportion of GDP remains the best and most widely accepted aggregate measure of the tax burden" - refer to the link to see some of the issues with using this particular measure.

The bottom line is that we are not anywhere near approaching a high taxing country. This is well and truly supported by the facts. To claim otherwise is just wrong, misleading or picking very very specific examples. I purposefully picked a Howard era Treasury report, it makes for good reading and the overall tax burden trend since has been down. This is settled, let's move on...

Alex, with respects to your "lucky" comments, i'm unsure which government you're referring to? Please clarify. Your "any dipshit government" comments can't relate to the Rudd/Gillard governments without relating to the Howard government. So one can only assume you're referring to both?

Glenn Stevens - The Lucky Country speech: http://www.rba.gov.a...gov-240712.html neatly addresses the 'luck' aspect of Australia's performance. Yes we have been geographically (and geologically) lucky, but having a floating exchange rate is not luck, having an independent reserve bank is not luck, having significant fiscal stimulus to use is not entirely luck, actually using that fiscal stimulus is not luck, having a strong banking system isn't luck, having an effective banking regulator isn't luck. This is years of hard work, sometimes good policy, good reforms and some good decisions during the GFC crisis.

As to unemployment starting to rise "largely" due to labor, what specifically are you referring? Labour market thankfully has stayed quite resilient, and last time I checked we have had 5 years of a federal labor government.

I understand the statistics out there, but when statistics don't match what's happening in the real world (especially in unemployment), I tend to wonder what's really going on in Canberra.

From your posts, you don't seem to understand the statistics out there. Are Australian's still the "highest taxed people in the world"? Are we in debt "up to our eyeballs"?

With respects to your 'real world' comment, so essentially you're saying that what you experience in your job/industry is meant to be exactly reflective of the entire country? And if what you see in your tiny snap-shot of the entire labour market isn't matching with the national employment figures, someone is cooking the books in Canberra? Is that basically what you're going for? Employment numbers are the employment numbers, produced by the same people using the same methodologies regardless of who's in government. It's as simple as that.

Wardski, i think what you're going for is cognitive dissonance.

Seems people working in the real world have seen what I have seen.. Soon the boat people will be taking our jobs, and at 1/4 the cost.

Ok, now you're venturing into ridiculous land. Am i suddenly not "working in the real world"? Is that what you're trying to say? Only conservatives work "in the real world"... please. I work for a big 4 bank, i know exactly what's going on. But i'm not stupid enough to paint a brush over the ENTIRE COUNTRY just based on my INDIVIDUAL experiences at the bank.

Yes Wardski, soon the boat people will take our jobs, the ones who aren't going to have a right to work......

[Wardski]

.... please. I work for a big 4 bank

Say no more!

[GT-R32]

Aaaand we have ad hominem. Daniel, I would leave it if I were you.

Also, Australias are in debt up their eyeballs, but Australian Government debt is very low (but high when you consider off balance sheet risk - the banks).

[SS8_Gohan]

Matt, the issue is that if someone when presented with the facts can't realise when they're wrong, then how are we to effectively meet the big challengers we have or have any semblence of a rational discussion? It's at least worth the effort to try and get people like Wardski to see reason in the hope that their misinformation doesn't spread further. That's why i've bothered to keep responding because it works both ways. Misinformation breeds misinformation, but if the next time Wardski is having a convo with someone he/she knows and the topic goes to debt or taxes, one can hope the REALITY of both are discussed, and then that actual reality is further discussed, and on and on, etc etc.

Say no more!

and your point is? Because i don't see it....

Given you've had nothing substantive to say in response to my posts, i can only hope that at least some of this has been taken onboard, and publicly you've chosen not to acknowledge it. That's fine, as long as you're perhaps starting to see some reason...

[Sunkist]

Matt, the issue is that if someone when presented with the facts can't realise when they're wrong,

reminds me of

lol everyone and their keyboards.

f**k get over it, one day you will all die. then what have you got to worry about. Since when does a GTR35 at pickles thread, turn into how much Julia Gaylard looks like ronald Mcdonald. if this is your biggest problem to worry and argue about, then in reality, you have absolutely nothing to worry about.

stop whining bitches.

[GT-R32]

I totally agree with your effort to get someone to recognise facts through evidence, I just think in this case it's shown to be a lost cause. Some people can't admit they're wrong and won't change their mind. They prefer to pick a side of politics and just go with it, usually parroting what they hear/read.

[NISMOGTT]

Matt, the issue is that if someone when presented with the facts can't realise when they're wrong

As much as i agree with you everyone is allowed an opinion and facts are only facts based on someone's interpretation(OPINION) of the results.

Any person with half a brain can make the same result or fact seem different just by a few words, this would then leed to opinion.

5% unemployment... so this can be said that 95% are employeed... same 'fact' different writting can lead to different opinion.

Dont stress yourself in life trying to prove people are wrong, as you might be right but it only comes accross as you being arrogant and a know it all....

not saying you are either of these but not having meet you some people could judge based on the 'facts' on these posts, again fact to someone based on opinion.

Have a great christmas and lower the stress

[GT-R OZ]

Is this an R35 forum or Q & A?

[Sunkist]

Is this an R35 forum or Q & A?

Clearly, it's about Hyundais

[Wardski]

Clearly, it's about Hyundais

Veloster Turbo... hmmmmmmmmm

[Wardski]

and your point is? Because i don't see it....

Given you've had nothing substantive to say in response to my posts, i can only hope that at least some of this has been taken onboard, and publicly you've chosen not to acknowledge it. That's fine, as long as you're perhaps starting to see some reason...

Man, get over it. The last few posts I've been TROLOLOLOLing you, which has proven worthy of a few giggles.

NISMOGTT is right - right or wrong we all have opinions.

If you're trying to get me to say "you're right" its not going to happen. That is just the way of the world.

Merry Xmas

[SS8_Gohan]

Nope, not looking for a "you're right" comment at all.

Yes we all have opinions NISMOGTT, but as US Senator Daniel Moynihan put it, "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." i'm not offering an opinion on the unemployment rate, i'm offering the facts. I'm not particularly offering an opinion on Australia's tax burden either as individuals or as a % of GDP, i'm offering the facts.

Whilst if we were talking about say whether you like milk or dark chocolate, then yes, it's perfectly fine to use "everyone is entitled to their opinion" in that context, but sometimes it just does not apply. A bad example, but one none-the-less, 1 + 1= 2, you cannot have your own opinion about whether that is correct or not. (and no, it doesn't = a window)

Aaron, sorry to have followed off on a tangent in this thread, as the auction was over, i thought there wasn't too much of an issue to have a bit of a discussion. And by the way, the 'stop whining' was perhaps the whole point of this discussion, Australia should do that.

Anyways, as we're not particularly discussing anything in particular anymore, i'll leave it be.

Merry Christmas all

[Sunkist]

Aaron, sorry to have followed off on a tangent in this thread, as the auction was over, i thought there wasn't too much of an issue to have a bit of a discussion. And by the way, the 'stop whining' was perhaps the whole point of this discussion, Australia should do that.

I still love you daniel.

no homo