Are the KMs real?

[DarkCoupe]

For the last couple of months, I have been looking for a R34 (as some of you might already know by my annoying WTB thread ). During my search, I have had the opportunity to look at a few examples, some of which look like fantastic buys (until I had them inspected ... at the cost of wasted $$)

I recently had a Silver R34 inspected. It looked fantastic. However, once I got someone who inspect it and drive it, even though they said that it was a very clean and straight car, I also heared the dreaded words "Mate ... there is no way in HELL this car has 37,000 KMs on it. It drives and looks more like a car that has done close to 100,000 KMs". (this was deducted as a combination of looking at wear on the gearknob and steering wheel, the feel of the gearbox, the fact that the clutch needed replacing ASAP, and various other little things)

Alright ... so does this mean that every single R34 Skyline I've looked at has had it's clock wound back, and there is no way for me to tell what the car REALLY has done? :Paranoid:

As per Merli's quite informative thread (I'm buying a Skyline... What should I look for?) Quote: "Which brings you to checking the kms. Is this a 1994 Skyline with 30,000kms? It's 2004 now, do you really think the previous owner drove 3000kms a year? Contrary to popular belief, Japanese owners drive their car a LOT, just as much as we do. Expect to find in the range of 9000-13000kms per year on the odometer reading. Don't convince yourself that this is a "rare super buy with low km granny owner driven on weekends car"... Bullshit. It's a Skyline you idiot. Check that the numbers on the odometer are aligned properly." EndQuote.

So I guess most of you just accept the fact that the car's Odomete has been played with. Or am I just missing something? I can tell you, I am not going to compramise, because when you do you are never happy, and you'll end up regretting it in the end anyway.

So give me some advice or your thoughts ... :blah:

[ferni]

As far as i know most imports are wound back before being put up for auction for us sucker aussies to pay top doller for

there may be one or two genuine kms, but don't expect to find them...

If the car looks good, drives well, and checks out mechanically, is it really a big deal?

[OKBANANA]

Can you tell if a car has been wound back?

[jake32]

cars are not wound back before going to auction,,,all mileage`s are checked against national data base..mileage at 2 yearly interval recorded..see shaken..aka roadworthy inspection....if mileage at sale time is inconsistant with recorded data a ? next to mileage on auction sheet will indicate this ...this happens a lot to skylines due to common upgrade to nismo 320k etc meter `s...however if meter is changed at dealership cars history documents will show mileage as combination of both speedo`s...

the japanese auction system is not perfect but in my experience meter tampering goes on after car leaves auction & japanese rwc system ....and not by japanese

[666DAN]

All I can say is my car had 45,000 on it in 2002....it's a 1999 model but it was absolutely immaculate, not a chip or mark on the car anywhere. A genuine low K car looks it, there should be no sign of wear, if in doubt don't touch it.

Most cars will average 10,000ks a year...unless you're me and have averaged 40,000 a year (yes I feel like I live in my car)

Dan

[DarkCoupe]

cars are not wound back before going to auction,,,all mileage`s are checked against national data base..mileage at 2 yearly interval recorded..see shaken..aka  roadworthy inspection....if mileage at sale time is inconsistant with recorded data  a ? next to  mileage on auction sheet will indicate this ...this happens a lot to skylines due to common upgrade to nismo 320k etc meter `s...however if meter is changed at dealership cars history documents will show mileage as combination of both speedo`s...

the japanese auction system is not perfect  but  in my  experience meter tampering goes on after car leaves auction & japanese rwc system ....and not by japanese

yeah I am thinkin that it gets done down here as well. A guy told me it's REALLY easy to do with the digital dashes (like the ones in the R34). All they need is this device with a chip that basically runs the clock up really fast (they leave it overnight so it goes to the maximum kays and goes back into the zero land, and then they stop it at a magical number)

All I can say is my car had 45,000 on it in 2002....it's a 1999 model but it was absolutely immaculate, not a chip or mark on the car anywhere. A genuine low K car looks it, there should be no sign of wear, if in doubt don't touch it.

Most cars will average 10,000ks a year...unless you're me and have averaged 40,000 a year (yes I feel like I live in my car)

Dan

well ... this your car sound genuine, in 2002, your car was a 3 year old car with 45000 kays, so that sounds reasonable. This car that I am thinking of is a 1998 model (and we are in 2004, so that makes it a 6 year old car) and it had 37000 kays on it. hmmmm, not so genuine, especially since the gearknob and steering wheel looked REALLY worn. I will steer clear I guess *sighs*

[Evo_Lee]

I've said it before...if your only paying say $20K AU for a 2000 R34 compared to a $25K or $30K one with the same K's...what you pay is what you get boys, it's your guess if the oddometer has been tampered. I have already seen V35 350GT Coupes out in 2003 with over 60K Kms...cheap 1.8Mil Yen

Contary to what we think, the Japanese do drive as much as we do, and you can expect sports cars to average 150-200km/night...ever heard of the midnight circuit battles here in Kansai.

Seriously it doesn't matter where the car comes from, if the car doesn't check out well then it's not worth buying.

[predator]

In the R33 at least i know I could change the dash over in 30 minutes for another and none would be the wiser at all. Its a simple procedure a 15 year old could do.

Even winding it forward or backwards manually would be relatively simple procedure. I am not quite sure about the R34 and the electronic odometer (if that is what they have?) but i'm sure its not much complicated. If its electronic, it may be even easier. Just work out the required voltage to click it over, and keep it applied for a while till you get the km you want.

jake32 i think is right too, although I'm not sure of the japanese system -- but i do know there are quite a few procedures in place to make it difficult. Like any system, i am sure there is a magic way around it.

I've said it before, and i'll say it again.. whoever looks at KM on a japanese car is being silly. The only km you can genuinely know what have been done is to ask the aussie owner. Ask the km it came into the country, and the km the owner has done.

I do believe jap cars do less than over here, public transport is much more accepted over there, driving is more like a wealthier privelege than a right, parking costs are astronomical, and petrol is probably more expensive also to encourage public transport. Don't you even have to buy a spot, which costs tens of thousands of dollars a year just to get a park in a major centre? So I can't really imagine them driving too much, unless its more country driving -- and well Japan isn't a large place compared to australia. So really like here, you have to ask, where was the car situated (close to salt water, etc), how many times a week was it driven, was it a daily driver, etc.

Darkcoupe: if you are so distrustful about km, why are you still using them at all? Why not look at ones that have done 90,000km. May well be better condition than one that has done a magic "35,000km"

Anyhow, i went through all this when i bought my r33. Looked close enough, car was in good condition, i asked the owner what he had available (the import papers with the km they it was brought in), and I bought.

[Adam_RSX]

Look at the door lock striker plate, you can usually see how much use a car has had

[jake32]

there are genuine low k cars in jp ....i have 2 atm 1 mercedes 190e (wifes)42000,cefiro 78000...both 89 models...all documents..2 year inspection sheets showing mileage all add up writing on buttons etc...cars are genuine...gtr arriving in dec has 57000k`s on nismo 260meter and documents show this was changed @43000k`s total 100k`s for 15years... this is genuine low k car@100 ...i think average is around 10-12000 per year ...although i saw 3/2000 er34 at auction with 1700klm`s = 400per year....how you could own a 34 for 4 years & only drive it 1700k`s is beyond me ..sad but true

[Pandaemonaeon]

I bought my '98 R33 with 96,000km on it. Came with all papers etc from the previous owner in Japan. You can never tell by looking at items like Steering wheel etc, as it depends on what the car has been used for. It was fairly obvious that my car had been used for drifting and because of it my steering wheel is completely worn.

[666DAN]

Forgot to mention my one came with the log-books too, it makes life a lot easier if the car has them.

Dan

[DarkCoupe]

well I didn't know I'd get so many responses

Dan I think you are one of the very rare few who got logbooks, as most of the imports I see never come with them (which I think is a shame, and if they did it would make the sale easier)

Like Evo Lee said, if the car looks like it's not quite right ... you have to give it a miss. Just makes things tough when you are fussy and have high standards and want a 'specific' thing. Back to the trains for me

[Abo Bob]

Mine is a 99 model and had 66000 on it last year when i bought it. It was in as new condition basically and even though the log books were not filled out everything about the car said it was good.

I guess what I'm saying is that a well looked after car with 66000 on the clock would probably fool most of us if it had 30000 on it.

One thing that bothers me is, what if you buy a car with "45000" on it when it's actually 90000, 10000 later you don't give it a 100000 service because you think it has 55000, another 10-20000 later something goes bang...

[franks]

low km skylines are about as believable as "performance cars only get driven on sundays by grandma's"....4 door skylines may be an exception

[666DAN]

Yeah I agree with Franks....my one now has a healthy 125,000k's on it, which is quite reasonable for a 5 year old car

[DRFT32]

hey guys

i herd that a general rule of telling if your kms have been wound back is that the number 5's dont line up...i saw a car once that had the kms wound back and sure enough the 5's didn't line up...dont know if its true with every type of car by just thought i'd let you guys know.

Aaron

[Merli]

Are the KMs real?

If you have to ask, no.

[Evo_Lee]

Of course there are cars with a correct odometer reading, owned by people like myself who only average 10,000km/year...weekend grocery shopping and a few interstate trips as well to the snowfield. No, not because I take the train often...I'm just over the whole crusing every weeknight or weekend. My E5 is now 6yo with only 62,000km on the clock, I've owned her since 2002 when she had 43,000km (Grading 4.5), but I paid a pretty penny back those days for one of these undamaged, low kilometer example .

Generally you will find grading 4 or more cars have intact log books and correct odometer. It's only common sense of buyer beware, then believing car dealers...if she reads about right and runs OK then she is worth a look.

Here's something scarry, I have already seen 2003 350GT Skyline Coupes with over 60,000km on the odometer already. All legit and written in the log book, 1.8Mil Yen bargain .

As for winding them back, it's all done after the car is purchased by a dealer/workshop at the request of the new owner...let me know if you need help .

[Rezz]

I do believe jap cars do less than over here, public transport is much more accepted over there, driving is more like a wealthier privelege than a right, parking costs are astronomical, and petrol is probably more expensive also to encourage public transport. Don't you even have to buy a spot, which costs tens of thousands of dollars a year just to get a park in a major centre? So I can't really imagine them driving too much...

If you ask a 20-something Japanese chick about driving in Japan, then yes, it's a privelege and not a right... on the other hand, why would anyone spend so much on securing a car in Japan (parking, shaken, maintenence etc) and then NOT drive it? This is where alot of people get it wrong, some Japanese DO drive their cars exessively, and I wouldn't be suprised if alot of the sportscar owners clock up the same amount of K's as an Aussie driver.

Odo's wound back? I'd agree with Troy (Evo_Lee)... he's wound back a few in his time