Wta 2013 Discussion

[Russman]

Thats good to hear Ben.

[GETSET]

Might upset a few fans from up north BUT

Advan R34 GTR

2010 ~4sec off the cyber

2011 ~3 sec off the cyber

2012 ~5 sec off the nemo

i would say trying to find an average of 4sec around EC is a tough ask

and that he lacks pace. Or is this a case of "could of would of should of"

Everyone on this forum knows the car is better then this, but looking at it from say

a EVO/SILVIA perspective 4 seconds is a asswhooping,

[Marlin]

Certainly a huge gap. But, what outsiders don't see is the 34 is still relatively unsorted. Last year's effort was a substantially altered, and effectively a completely untested car rolling off the trailer for the first time.

Whether sorted it could compete with those times is an unknown. What will be known this year is how good a 34 can be, if the whispers I hear that M-Speed is paying a visit come to fruition

How about this for discussion?

Why is the Advan R34 deemed as a "Pro" level car? It is majority built by one man, from home, in his spare time, and a bit of a hand from friends and family to run the thing.

Should it not actually be an "Open" car? Or does having a Yoki sticker on the side instantly make it a Pro car?

Why is the R32 from the same back yard garage viewed and entered as an Open car?

Would the pace of the R34 be looked at differently if competed in Open?

These are my questions, and my questions only. I'd like to make that clear.

[R31Nismoid]

Should it not actually be an "Open" car? Or does having a Yoki sticker on the side instantly make it a Pro car?

Indeed it is a very interesting point given the budget and the fact I've been in the shed he works out of... It's hardly a pro workshop outfit, just a very clever guy making use of what is available on a limited budget of money and also time. (Plus Mark is an awesome bloke )

To the question though - Would it be because the rules say it's Pro by definition?

10. SUSPENSION

c. Original mounting points may be reinforced and altered in design but not in location (except Pro).

Given the points aren't anywhere near factory - to go back to Open Class would require a fair bit of rework.

[Roy]

Why is the Advan R34 deemed as a "Pro" level car? It is majority built by one man, from home, in his spare time, and a bit of a hand from friends and family to run the thing.

The car is an absolute credit to him and those that had input.

For me you measure cars against themselves, not the others. Sure the entrants and competitors can shoot for each others times and be competitive but from the comfort of my desk behind my PC its not right to judge the pace of any of the cars. Unless they are an EVO then they are just so easy to drive that my 5yr old nephew woudl give outright a nudge .

Hell I have been trying to rebuild and semi restore my Cossie the past 9 months and jsut cant find the time and I am single. Time is hard to come by

[Duncan]

muahahaha excellent, early break out of fighting talk!

[Marlin]

Indeed it is a very interesting point given the budget and the fact I've been in the shed he works out of... It's hardly a pro workshop outfit, just a very clever guy making use of what is available on a limited budget of money and also time. (Plus Mark is an awesome bloke )

To the question though - Would it be because the rules say it's Pro by definition?

10. SUSPENSION

c. Original mounting points may be reinforced and altered in design but not in location (except Pro).

Given the points aren't anywhere near factory - to go back to Open Class would require a fair bit of rework.

Yeah absolutely true, the front end would need to revert to std pickups.

But I'm more asking that question on principal V any actual elligibility. On that rule..... it's interestingly worded. Could be read to mean a couple of different things.

[GTR32G]

muahahaha excellent, early break out of fighting talk!

Now where is the like button!

[R31Nismoid]

Not really sure the rules really allow for "the principle" or "merit" when eligibility is concerned haha

Guess that's the nature of playing in the top class as essentially, a privateer. Certainly not easy that's for sure - although no doubt there are other guys in the same position in every class. Workshop sponsored vs Privateer/Hobbyist type of people.

And yes, interestingly worded - and such is motorsport - he who interprets the rules best gets the advantage.

[GTR32G]

In regards to the questions same could be said about the Tilton EVO running in open.

I don’t think anyone would say Berry's R34 lacks pace unless it’s in a joke, but even if it did run in Open class for 2012 would have finished 2nd which would be a shock to a lot of people. That’s why they have made rules on aero for 2013 so this won’t happen having crazy aero in open. Let’s just hope the rules get enforced!

[Duncan]

Yeah absolutely true, the front end would need to revert to std pickups.

But I'm more asking that question on principal V any actual elligibility. On that rule..... it's interestingly worded. Could be read to mean a couple of different things.

Spot on Ben, that clearly says that the standard suspension points cannot be moved. Nowhere does it say they have to be used to mount the suspension.

And if you don't think that is a valid interpretation...where was the AFM on the Gibson R31s? Those rules said the standard AFM had to be present and connected.

[PN-Mad]

Spot on Ben, that clearly says that the standard suspension points cannot be moved. Nowhere does it say they have to be used to mount the suspension.

And if you don't think that is a valid interpretation...where was the AFM on the Gibson R31s? Those rules said the standard AFM had to be present and connected.

True that. With the R31, on the passengers side inner guard I think. With a random wire coming out of it...

[Risking]

IPRA rx7's with watts links and a pan hard rod cause it says you have to retain the pan hard rod but doesn't say you can't elongate the hole to make it irrelevant then add a watts link.

[Duncan]

see?? fun for everyone!

[Risking]

I've got one of your emo mates from combined touring at the moment. Bunch of cheating bastards they are!

[Duncan]

well I'd guess there are very few winners out there who are not also cheaters

thanks Lance for reminding us all that

In a lot of ways, the essence of superlap was to see how quick a car can go without rules to hold it back. And like every other formula where that has ever been tried (active suspension or turbo F1, group b rally, can am touring cars etc etc), it quickly somes to a ridiculously unsustainable level. I mean, in what reality does someone spend a million on a car that can only do 1 lap, and can't do any other event?

[Roy]

I mean, in what reality does someone spend a million on a car that can only do 1 lap, and can't do any other event?

But you would if you could (had the means)

Sure as sh1t not what I would build, but good on em for just going bonkers

[Duncan]

sorry...but no. If I was in that budget range I would have an AMG supertaxi and do 20 national rounds per year, or buy a carbon aston martin+ a tarmac rally R35 and do a varied range of events

Or maybe I would just invest the cash in beer and hookers.

[fatz]

sorry...but no. If I was in that budget range I would have an AMG supertaxi and do 20 national rounds per year, or buy a carbon aston martin+ a tarmac rally R35 and do a varied range of events

Or maybe I would just invest the cash in beer and hookers.

old age has matured your tastes

except the ghay amg thing your spot on

[hrd-hr30]

That WTAC suspension rule must be last years, because the current rules say suspension is free in open class.

IPRA rx7's with watts links and a pan hard rod cause it says you have to retain the pan hard rod but doesn't say you can't elongate the hole to make it irrelevant then add a watts link.

Close, but IPRA rules actually say devices for lateral location are free for live axles. They're not required to keep the original panhard, and I've never seen one do it.The thing they do is with the trailing arms. They must retain all other components that locate the rear wheels (apart from the lateral location device) and all original pivot points (no slotting), but additional longitudinal rear suspension arms are allowed with new mounting points on the body. So what they do with the upper arms is use such a soft 'elastomer bush' made from foam so that the original arms have no effect and add new upper arms.

Edited January 31, 2013 by hrd-hr30