Rebuilding Rb25 Neo Need Advice

[amnash]

This is what happened:

did some work on the skyline (oil cooler filter relocation, rad hoses and power steering lines) and wanted to start the engine and bleed coolant and let it idle for a while to get oil through the cooler etc. so engine was running for a good 10 mins water was up to temp and was trying to get the rear speakers to work while it ran(another story) and all of a sudden the engine stalls and there's a slight bang... try to start it again and it just wont start.. the video below is me trying to start with WOT and while cranking there is a knocking coming from turbo side.

first i thought the power steering pump was siezed becasue the previous day i started it up and the pump sucked the reservoir dry filling the new line, soon as i noticed i shut down got some fluid topped it up today before starting and was fine for the first 10 mins. removed PS belt and issue remained.

the oil i put in was 5w40 amsoil, i know its a bit thick. but the temp was about 5 degrees was thinking maybe the oil was too thick to reach some parts of engine causing seizing somewhere?? maybe to thick for turbo lines?? .. i hope not. during the first 10 minutes of running the oil didnt was up that much either(the gauge didn't even move yet, gauge starts at 140F)

could installing the oil cooler filter reloc. lines backwards F things up? (im pretty sure they're installed correctly, used greddy's diagram)

heres video sorry for sound quality, balanced gopro on some wood leaning against car and it rattled a bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULGAYoCGVVw&feature=youtu.be

BETTER VIDEO:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdcyImDYfT4&feature=youtu.be

the diagram i used clearly shows the exact opposite of what youre manual shows... im so F**king pissed.. i dont understand why there would be two different diagrams..

i will switch the lines around and see what happens.. but if the filter acted as a check valve preventing oil getting back into the enging its probably f*cked the bearings.. fml

whom ever made that false diagram needs a bullet to the side of there head

anyone have an explanation to what actually happened inside the engine? was running fine for 10 minutes the a bang then rod knock and simply wouldnt start.

i need help figuring out what bearings. going through acl bearing catalog ive found the rb25det but i thought the neo was a bit different and had rb26 rods? so do i go with the rb26 rod bearings? luckily the main bearings apear to be the same between the rb20,25,26 so that makes it easy. just looking for some concrete information on what rod bearings to get.

next is the bearing sizes. the std. size bearings dont acually say what size they are.. so the plus 0.025,0.25,or 0.5 means added on top of what value??

if you follow the link at the top there's a more detailed desription of what happened. and explains why this build is basically trying to get the engine back to the state it was in the fall(no spun bearing) so if there is a way to change the bearings say without removing the head (i had 160 compression on all 6 so i think i shouldn't have to if possible) or any other advice to just keep this build budget frendly and fast would be awesome. the engine is 100% stock.

Edited February 1, 2013 by amnash

[amnash]

if i take the head off, can i still just reuse the piston rings since it had great compression? or will it miss align everything and ill get bad compression after they move

[StevenCJR31]

for the price of the rings you might as well use new ones. . not forgetting you will need to give the cylinder bore a light hone with the correct crosshatch pattern

[amnash]

to determine if i need a line hone, can i just install new bearings and crank, torque to spec, and rotate the crank? if if turns nice and evenly smooth it means no line hone needed? or more in depth then that?

also, is it ok to install then remove the bearings a couple times torquing things down to check for clearances?? i was thinking you wanted to avoid dissembling of bottom end once thing are torqued down..or can you assemble, dissemble, reassemble as many times as you want and things will be ok?

[amnash]

ok I found the piece of paper with the compression test from the install. it was more like 170 on all 6 cylinders.

just tested now and its like 180 on all six even one 185. its like the rings were still sealing. I think the kms were under 50000 km it looked so clean/stock. such a.shame.

prepping engine for removal now.

[StevenCJR31]

is this a build thread or are you actually asking for advice?

[amnash]

im asking for advice. its on two forums though, and was asked to take a compression test so rule anything else out.

could use some advice on how to pick the right size bearings

what are the clearance specs for the rod and main bearings?

Edited February 2, 2013 by amnash

[Dobz]

The bearings in your engine will be stamped with either "std" or "0.25" etc. Check them when you pull them out.

Edited February 2, 2013 by Dobz

[MrStabby]

The way i see it the diagrams labelled Correct and Incorrect are showing the same thing - I think you might be misinterpreting one of them. The way the pipes connect to the block is not top and bottom, its center and "outside".

And yes i've heard of cases where oil cooler/remote filter kits have killed engines because they're plumbed backwards.

[amnash]

have a closer look. the block adapter is rotated 180 degees between the two images the lines connecting to filter block from engine are backwards

Edited February 2, 2013 by amnash

[amnash]

can anyone say if these parts will work with the rb25

arp rod bolts 202-6007

http://www.frsport.com/ARP-202-6007-Nissan-RB26DETT-Rod-Bolt-Kit_p_27104.html

and im stuck between two sets of piston rings, are they the exact same? (nissan says theyre both bad part numbers)

12033-AA110 (neo specific)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nissan-12033-AA110-OEM-Piston-Rings-RB25DET-86mm-RB25-R34-NEO-RB-/181049104079?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item2a275e16cf&ssPageName=RSS:B:STORE:US:101

12033-21U10 (regular rb25)

http://www.frsport.com/Nissan-Genuine-OEM-Piston-Rings-Set-RB25DET_p_18630.html

if i can use the rings from frsport would be nice because im getting gasket kit from them and bolts so ill ask for discount or free shipping

Edited February 2, 2013 by amnash

[kitto]

If it ran for 10 mins with no oil your gonna need more than just rings and bearings dude...!

[StevenCJR31]

If it ran for 10 mins with no oil your gonna need more than just rings and bearings dude...!

agree with that ^^^ ! if the motor stalled whilst idling then you could have a spun bearing / scored crank. . metal swarf in the oil galleries, anything really, suggest you strip the engine down and then determine what you need from there

[amnash]

ok so ive found out why it wouldnt run. the timing belt has jumped 4 teeth on the exhaust cam. with the oil pan removed, all the rods look good and feel solid so im happy about that. the timing belt had one tooth that was cracked and looked like it folded over (was new belt).

so now i have to try figure out what happened. i can turn both cams by hand and both tensioner and idler pulleys look fine.

gonna do a leak down test while the cam covers are off to double check the valves again (had 180 compression on all 6 but exhaust cam was off by 4 teeth)

and the milky off looking oil, to check that gonna pressurize coolant system and look for leaks.

The exhaust cam must have seized up for a second.. something to do with the momentary oil starvation maybe??

im just glad the bottom end looks ok i didnt actually remove the girdle though to check the bearings, just made sure the rods where still nice and tight on the crank. should i unbolt the girdle and check out the bearings and if all looks good just bolt back on? can i reuse main bolts?

any ideas why the belt would jump like that?

[MrStabby]

have a closer look. the block adapter is rotated 180 degees between the two images the lines connecting to filter block from engine are backwards

Read my post again. You didn't understand it. I'm probably not be explaining it well, but until you understand where you went wrong, youre destined to make the same catastrophic mistake again. Angular rotation makes NO difference. All angles give you the same configuration. Think radially. Its not left and right or up and down - its inside (central) and outside (peripheral). Look at the base of an oil filter.

[amnash]

its not the block adapter that was wrong. check where the central line from each picture connects to the filter block.

[amnash]

ok, so im gonna unbolt the girdle and check out the bearings and plastigauge then bolts it back on if all is good. would I be able to one at a time, do same thing with the rods? at least that way bottom half of all bearings will get a look(better then nothing) and I'll plastigauge them too, and use red threadlocker when putting rods back together.

EDIT: never mind, fsm says rod bolts need 60~65 angle wrench so theyre stretch. ill just check the mains.

Edited February 8, 2013 by amnash

[amnash]

small update.

main caps were removed and everything seems fine, a bit of wear on bearings but oil clearances were still good.

gave all the rods a tap with a rubber mallet and they all seem fine no movement.

took the intake manifold and exhaust manifold off to look at the valves from behind and they all look new, no damage.

did a leak down test and this is what i got:

#1 - 4%

#2 - 7%

#3 - 9%

#4 - 9%

#5 - 8%

#6 - 4%

bolting everything back together and gonna just start it up and see how it goes. put my spare turbo on, new timing belt, tensioner/stud

[amnash]

stripped it down as far as checking the main bearings. wanted to try everything before complete tear down. i made this video with all the clips and stuff i took along the way. trying to get into movie editing and this was a nice little project. its only the second movie ive done so far.

[Dobz]

The message on the end of the video is wrong. Whether it be looking for the oil light to switch off or waiting for a reading on your oil pressure gauge, you should ALWAYS prime the oil before you start the engine.

Even though the clearances looked to be ok with the plastigauge some of the surfaces looked badly glazed. To me that would be reason to put some new bearings in seeing as it was apart.

Did you check the cam journals for galling?

Some advice for the video I would give is keep the part where you show the bearings in real time. The shaky camerawork sped up makes it harder to see the bearings in detail.