How To Make An R33 Gts-T Handle Better?

[LANDSCRIBBLE]

I'm curious to know with these cars which things can make a vast or not so vast improvement in the way of handling and balance, that doesnt cost a couple week's paycheck.

I'll try and list all the things it currently has upgraded..

18X9 +23 all round

235/40 Kumho KU31 front

265/35 Federal RSR rear

Front strut brace

BC BR Coilovers (8 and 6kg)

27mm whiteline front swaybar

Nismo castor arms

Shimmed diff (Pretty much locked)

Aftermarket rear lower control arms

HICAS lock bar

Aluminium subframe bushes

Relocate spare wheel and jack to shed

I'm thinking maybe a bit more neg camber on the front could help, but what do i know, lol.

Can any of the guru's out there recommend some things worth upgrading (that are good bang for buck) that might get this barge of a car faster lap times?

Thanks.

[Duncan]

Tyres mate.

There are a whole heap of things on there that make much less difference than a good set of tyres. ANd doing track work, or even worse making setup changes, with road tyres on the track is just chasing a problem that may not exist.

There are a brilliant handling car out of the box (tyring tracking something else like a commodore or wrx that is pretty standard and you will feel the difference!)

The setup I used on my GTST (1.10s at Wakefield park) were:

bleed valve, 12psi boost, 160rwkw

lower springs

tight mechancial diff

whiteline sway bars

235 front 265 rear semi slicks

If you are on a budget (like most people), try Federal FZ201 tyres, they are great in the dry and very cheap. Otherwise I'd go Kumho V70a, or maybe Toyo 888 (but skylines can be a ltitle heavy). If you want the best at any price go for Dunlop Dz03, Yoko A050 or the Hankooks, but be ready to pay $500+ per tyre.

BTW you can get second hand slicks or semi slicks but they are a real gamble on quality...generally they are cheap because they are past their best, but sometimes there are bargains

[blind_elk]

I would have thought that a 265 is a bit too wide on a 9" rim, and 235 is a bit narrow.

Also, try a heavier rear bar. Run higher air pressure in the front tyres.

Are the coilovers adjustable for ride height? If so, have you had the car corner weighted?

On a different tack, upgrade the brakes to use braided lines, fit some good pads and slotted rotors (if you haven't already).

[GTSBoy]

27mm front bar with no rear upgrade should make it it bit "interesting" to drive.

[R31Nismoid]

Agreed, I'm thinking that as well, pretty hefty front is there is nothing in the rear.

And in terms of handling/balance - what are the issues you are currently having? It's too taily happy? Front understeer or doesn't respond too well?

Also agree RE: Tyres. KU31's are terrible... I have them on the front of my Commodore lol, I wouldn't put them on a car that I actually wanted to handle properly.

If you complimented the front with RS-Rs to match the rear you'd notice a major improvement there for sure.

There is also the cheap Achillies semi on the market at the moment that is around $200 a tyre in a 265/18 - They are starting to get a reasonable reputation for the people on a tight budget.

[gtr jet]

I couldn't out drive my KU36's at the track the other day but for the money I'm going to try Achillies next time. Seem too be pretty good.

As the other guys have said, I'd be changing to some better tyres 1st and then looking at maybe a bigger rear sway bar?

[LANDSCRIBBLE]

Woops I meant KU36's on the front.

Tyres mate.

There are a whole heap of things on there that make much less difference than a good set of tyres. ANd doing track work, or even worse making setup changes, with road tyres on the track is just chasing a problem that may not exist.

There are a brilliant handling car out of the box (tyring tracking something else like a commodore or wrx that is pretty standard and you will feel the difference!)

The setup I used on my GTST (1.10s at Wakefield park) were:

bleed valve, 12psi boost, 160rwkw

lower springs

tight mechancial diff

whiteline sway bars

235 front 265 rear semi slicks

If you are on a budget (like most people), try Federal FZ201 tyres, they are great in the dry and very cheap. Otherwise I'd go Kumho V70a, or maybe Toyo 888 (but skylines can be a ltitle heavy). If you want the best at any price go for Dunlop Dz03, Yoko A050 or the Hankooks, but be ready to pay $500+ per tyre.

BTW you can get second hand slicks or semi slicks but they are a real gamble on quality...generally they are cheap because they are past their best, but sometimes there are bargains

Thanks for that. When funds permit i shall be on the lookout for some proper semi's, though maybe not the Dunlops or Yoko's, those prices just scare me, lol.

I would have thought that a 265 is a bit too wide on a 9" rim, and 235 is a bit narrow.

Also, try a heavier rear bar. Run higher air pressure in the front tyres.

Are the coilovers adjustable for ride height? If so, have you had the car corner weighted?

On a different tack, upgrade the brakes to use braided lines, fit some good pads and slotted rotors (if you haven't already).

I think so too, a 245 front and 255 would be ideal for me.

What sort of air pressures are best? Or is it a case of dialing it in for each car.

Yep, height/damper and springs are adjustable, havent had it corner weighted (only found out about that last night actually).

Waiting to be installed are some front slotted DBA rotors with PMU HC+ pads, and fresh rear standard rotors with PMU B-spec pads. Aswell as some braided brake lines and RBF660 fluid.

27mm front bar with no rear upgrade should make it it bit "interesting" to drive.

I think i read somewhere that with a GTS-t, to upgrade the front swaybar and leave the rear, apparently inducing understeer.

There was a Whiteline swaybar group-buy at the time, lol.

Agreed, I'm thinking that as well, pretty hefty front is there is nothing in the rear.

And in terms of handling/balance - what are the issues you are currently having? It's too taily happy? Front understeer or doesn't respond too well?

Also agree RE: Tyres. KU31's are terrible... I have them on the front of my Commodore lol, I wouldn't put them on a car that I actually wanted to handle properly.

If you complimented the front with RS-Rs to match the rear you'd notice a major improvement there for sure.

There is also the cheap Achillies semi on the market at the moment that is around $200 a tyre in a 265/18 - They are starting to get a reasonable reputation for the people on a tight budget.

Not exactly getting any dramas with the car. I probably wasnt pushing it hard enough at the track day i went to (had some Achillies ATR sport tyres on at the time and was getting brake fade). So wasnt super confident + being my first time on Barbagello at night time.

That is the Achillies 123 tyre is it? I also heard they are good, that they just dont last as long as the others.

[Cassbo]

While it technically doesn't change how the car handles, I believe there is a lot to be said for driver training and seat time. You will get faster lap times and have fun doing it!

[GTSBoy]

I think i read somewhere that with a GTS-t, to upgrade the front swaybar and leave the rear, apparently inducing understeer.

There was a Whiteline swaybar group-buy at the time, lol.

Yuh. More roll stiffness at the front moves the grip to the rear. If you like it safe, then understeer is the safest characteristic to build into a car's handling. But I hate understeer. Hate it hate it hate it. If I have to leave the road, I'm happier doing so facing backwards. Less chance of a neck injury. /jokes.

But anyway, it's not sensible to put a massively stiff front bar on (like your 27mm) without upgrading the rear too. You'd want at least the 24m adjustable on the rear to balance that stiff front bar.

[simpletool]

Yep, with 8kg front/6kg rear you'd want a 22 adjustable to match the 27mm fixed. Will make a massive difference to handling.

You'll want the adjustable version to fine tune the balance.

What rims are those? I'm interested as 9" +23 sounds like a good fitment. I'm surprised that 265/35 fit with +23.

Edited February 4, 2013 by simpletool

[MrStabby]

Yep, with 8kg front/6kg rear you'd want a 22 adjustable to match the 27mm fixed. Will make a massive difference to handling.

You'll want the adjustable version to fine tune the balance.

+1 adjustable rear sway bar is definitely the first thing to do. Second would be front tyres, unless they've got some meat on them and you want to get some value out of them. KU36s should be ok, but not as grippy as RSRs.

[LANDSCRIBBLE]

Yep, with 8kg front/6kg rear you'd want a 22 adjustable to match the 27mm fixed. Will make a massive difference to handling.

You'll want the adjustable version to fine tune the balance.

What rims are those? I'm interested as 9" +23 sounds like a good fitment. I'm surprised that 265/35 fit with +23.

Looks like a rear swaybar is on the list then They are blitz type 01 and yes, perfect fitment if you ask me. I was worried aswell about the 265. Wouldnt want anything wider but it even with minimal camber they dont touch anything.

[simpletool]

Got any pics of fitment?

and +1 to better front tyres. It's good to use the same tyres all around.

BTW. I chose the 22mm adjustable rear based on % increase over stock. It should be right, and you can adjust to equivalent of 21, 22, 23mm (approximately).

[Yagnol]

Over the last few years we've taken an essentially stock R33 GTST to Winton and gradually upgraded it, noting the laptime benefits of each upgrade.

We reduced the weight significantly, (probably around 200kgs removed), ran the same boost pressure and stock brake system during this period. We also installed a VideoVBOX system to properly understand what was happening.

Whilst this car had previously had Tein Street Springs installed it still had some pretty rubbish standard shocks. So no coil-overs...

Biggest 'feel' benefit was a proper fixed back race seat. Not a lot of lap time here, but major gains to help learn what the car was doing.

Sway bars: -2.1" per lap

Whiteline Blade Adjustable, as most people attest, gave a massive laptime improvement on the same rubber.

Brake reconditioning: -2.8" per lap

Still the stock brake rotors, re-machined, Ferodo pads, Dot 5 fluid and new seals all-round.

Semi-Slicks (Toyo R888's) -5.58" per lap

We also shimmed up the diff a little before bolting these tyres on so it's difficult to tell how much of which was of benefit, but I can tell you the diff shims were very cheap and the tyres, not so much!

There's a million other little upgrades on there, like a HICAS lockbar and undertray, rear wing, but there's no way for us to directly prove the benefits using the data... and asides from the lockbar they aren't 'suspension' related.

We will have BC ER Coilovers on soon, but also a completely new RB30DET good for well over 500bhp and a roll cage, so it won't be a fair comparison. But I hope this helps.

Some more details on the project including on-boards etc here:

http://droppingthehammer.wordpress.com/

Best of luck, hope to see you there soon.

[LANDSCRIBBLE]

Hey mate, thanks heaps for the post, thats some great info there.