Building A Leaf

[Duncan]

Sorry mate didn't realise you were in NZ.  All the aussie ones are 2011 models but you guys get proper options, and far cheaper than here.

Good on the dealer to post up the Leaf Spy data, that really helps buyers and saves you the time stuffing around to do it. 

I might have misunderstood the second one but it is reporting 5,000 quick charges and only 376 regular charges which is very strange, maybe it is an ex fleet or taxi of some sort? Nissan recommend avoiding quick charging as it degrades the battery; it has lower kays, same age, but worse battery....

The first car is even stranger as it reports 0 miles, 0 quick charge and 6 regular charges; my guess it is has a new onboard charger which is where that data is stored. These can either fail with time (in particular a diode dies killing the whole thing), or maybe someone has been stuffing with it and damaged something...

Yes, the state of health (SOH) is the figure that matters, and yes the first one is reporting 82 vs 75. Basically that is % of new battery capacity left. Ours is around 70 after 5 years but obviously they keep declining.

One thing I forgot to mention is the cabin heater uses an electric element to warm coolant, and these do fail. Make sure you crank the heat on test drive to confirm that works. About $1000 to repair if not.

Also, find out what they come with for charging and how fast it will charge. In Oz they came with a 10A cable which takes about 8 hours for a full battery, and it needed a 15A Oz power point (or mods to the cable). Proper Level2 chargers cost 1-3k and will do it in 4 hours.  Either way is OK for overnight charging but you just need to plan ahead for the slower one.....

[SimonR32]

Do you think the motorsport has hammered the batteries and caused some premature wear compared to a normal commuter?

 

[Duncan]

well....obviously we were interested to know.  even on the hottest days racing the battery temp never moved off average discharging it, we only ever saw the temp move when we fast charged the car.  Pic below was from Bathurst on a 30+ degree day. So on data in front of us, no way to say it caused any trouble. Certainly the car performs exactly as it always has which is nice.

Just took this battery report from our car, interesting to compare to the 2 posted earlier.  Our car is a year older older and has more klms and the battery is 4 and 10% worse respectively....so my guess is racing it has made stuff all difference.

[Hertz Donut]

Noted: Thrash Leaf, always.  

[Duncan]

She loves it. 

 

 

(apparently)

[Hertz Donut]

Just another quick threadjack: We ended up buying one ourselves, a 2013 X-spec with 11 bars and 43km on the clock. Seems to have been very well cared for (was a 4.5 auction grade) but we'll take care of that. Haven't even mentioned Leafs (Leaves?) to the mother-in-law yet. Heh.

It's "peppier" than I thought it would be...

[Duncan]

cool choice....enjoy silently trolling porsches at traffic lights

[KiwiRS4T]

Hope you got a 24kw one Matt - hopefully you read about the 30kw car's batteries degrading faster. The Trust I work for is buying 6 electric cars. So far one Leaf and 3 eNV200 vans. We will probably get one more van and hopefully a Hyundai Ioniq for a bit longer range.

And Duncan, re batteries, Nissan is providing b- all support but the local dealers have been negotiating to bring batteries in from Japan and have finally succeeded - the hold up has been getting the Dangerous Goods designation. As well a local firm, Blue Cars, has been rebuilding batteries by identifying the weak cells and replacing them with good ones. It also has an ambitious plan to make battery packs  from scratch.

Its good fun dragging people off at the lights as many Leafs (Leaves?) are owned by conservative greenies intent on using as little power as possible and the owners of petrol cars are not accustomed to seeing electric cars leave them standing !

And even more off topic - first an ad featuring an electric classic and below that a short video on its build:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/national-video/news/video.cfm?c_id=1503075&gal_cid=1503075&gallery_id=189421

[Hertz Donut]

13 hours ago, Duncan said:

cool choice....enjoy silently trolling porsches at traffic lights

My wife drives it a lot more than me and she says she hasn't been beaten yet. And obviously she can tell when the other person is trying cos of the engine noise. It's bloody hilarious. We've also found that the Guessometer is pretty accurate since we live in a fairly flat area (drags not withstanding).

@KiwiRS4T yep, got a 24kW version, I did a fair bit of research before we made the choice so read about the 30kW dramas. I never realised the Fairlane was actually real, that's brilliant. *Looks out window at Stageas...*

[No Crust Racing]

I bet this is like the people who say they chop this or chop that and the other car isn't actually aware of there even being any "race" lol

I want a Tesla though... 

[Hertz Donut]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it'll see off a staged Evo or anything, but the average 6 cylinder Falcodore pilot who thinks he'll give it a shove from idle at the lights in town and walk away with everyone suitably impressed by his massive appendage is in for a shock. I've owned quicker cars for sure, but from 0-50km/h it'll surprise a few people.

Edited June 27, 2018 by Hertz Donut

[No Crust Racing]

GoPro footage thanks.

[KiwiRS4T]

7 hours ago, ActionDan said:

GoPro footage thanks.

Ok to be fair this is the latest Leaf (not the 3 year old model):

https://insideevs.com/watch-2018-nissan-leaf-accelerate-to-60-mph-plus-top-speed/

[No Crust Racing]

Haha very cool, I can see how you could catch people napping in that.

[Hank Scorpio]

Thoughts on the new Leaf Duncan? Sounds like it's got a great litte power plant and battery(s).

https://jalopnik.com/the-long-range-nissan-leaf-e-plus-will-reportedly-have-1827623924?utm_medium=socialflow&utm_campaign=socialflow_jalopnik_facebook&utm_source=jalopnik_facebook

[Duncan]

Well I reckon it's great they are putting in larger motors with each release but I don't understand why they say having the larger battery made it possible....that's exactly the same as saying you could not build a v8 unless you can have a larger fuel tank. Sure you can use more juice putting your foot down more often, but I'd rather see both the battery size and power output being independent options when you buy.

even with current (global)/ upcoming (oz) leaf, I am not at all convinced that larger batteries are the only way to go.  In my opinion buyers who think properly about it should be able to choose say a 24kwh battery for 25k instead of a 40kwh one for 40k. 24kwh has been plenty for day to day use in the city, and conversely 40kwh isn't enough for all of the longer distances uses we would need so it is just a more expensive in between option.  You only ever need enough juice for your regular daily use so you can charge overnight, there is nothing gained by dragging around a battery that gives you say 3 days between charges....

[Hertz Donut]

Since we're using ours for the school runs etc we've had no issues at all with a ~120km max range. We're saving around $500/m on petrol compared to running around in one of the Stageas ($120/m power vs $620/m fuel). At this rate it'll pay for itself in 2 years and 9 months.

Edited July 17, 2018 by Hertz Donut

[niZmO_Man]

^ exactly why I want one, but alas am too poor (and have two cars already)

[sneakey pete]

battery size comes down to max discharge rate. as with everything its a balance and to meet all of the other requirements they need to limit it to a certain amount. Eg a 20kwh pack that can draw 200kw of power is probably not going to have the lifecycle required.

Slightly related, heard someone mention that a software update has 'fixed' the battery degrade issues with all of the 30kwh cars? So they might be a viable option, eg to import from Japan. 

I agree that its pointless to go for the massive pack because as said its never going to be good enough, however some people still might not quite be able to make 24kwh work. that being said i don't think i've ever done more than 170km in my daily in the last few years. a 30kwh version of the second generation with the old 80kw motor would be pretty neat

[Duncan]

For sure the battery is the potential issue in these cars.  They are either going to be thrown away in 10 years, or require a multi thousand dollar replacement.  

But it's really hard to tell what is real about what you read from single experiences vs the whole picture. I don't know about the 30kw/h one personally, but with the 24kw/h in 5.5 years and 200 cars in Oz, there was 1 battery that died very young (nissan replaced, probably some sort of quality/assembly error), and somewhere up to 5 that managed to get to the battery degradation replacement level before the warranty ran out and also go replaced by nissan. Like I posted about, we're at 2/3 of original capacity (say 16kwh) after 5 years, if it's linear that leaves 1/3 after 10 years or about 30klm per charge which is only usable in very specific cases like school runs or seniors to the bowling club ? By my count that is 1.5% failure rate after 5 years which is probably better than any normal car (mostly because these cars have much less to go wrong)

So what's interesting to me is we've gone from manufacturers warranting a car for 3 (to 5) years, and an average fleet age of 10 years in Australia, to a car that realistically HAS to be replaced or have a major repair at 10 years. I bet Nissan will say that is the expected life of a car anyway and they are probably right....but then I look at every other car we own and they are between 20 and 30 years old.

Other than the battery my guess is these cars will last much longer than the average car due to less servicing required (and therefore less impact if you don't service it), and fewer complex parts to fail. But how many people would spend $5k to keep a 10 year old, $5k car on the road (even if it returns to say 15 or 20k value after the repair since it has another 10 years of cheap, trouble free motoring ahead).