Looks Like Garrett Slipped Another Gtx30 Variant In .

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

MOARRRRRRRRRRRRRR BOOST

1.5bar would be good haha

[Mick_o]

Id have to agree with Ben cams wont help your cause and a cam gear on the exhaust I didn't notice any improvement to be honest..

How do they know the exhaust was a restriction?

Did they increase the boost with no power gains?

Id have to agree that its got more left in it for sure. But from your accounts I think they were a little lazy in trying to get the most out of your setup (puts flame suit on)

Stuff like a 10psi acutator should of been rectified before the turbo was installed. What size injectors and pump you running?

Whats your intake like?

What kind of intercooler are you running?

[Lithium]

How much laggier does it feel than the stocker? Do you have a boost gauge? I had a bit of a sniff around about PZP and found this thread which makes it seem like they start a bit "late" and with fast ramp rates going by some of the boost curves coming from there:

http://www.silviawa.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=71535

The turbo is always going to be laggier than the stocker, but how much is the question - hard one to quantify there really. It will be interesting to see what you think about it once you have driven it a bit... do some 3rd or 4th gear loading up from lower rpm and see how it comes alive. Do you have a boost gauge to track it a bit?

Also, not sure that the compressor is going to have a massive amount more in it - as I mentioned earlier I would have liked it to have seen near 270kw but I wouldn't have counted on any more than Mick's prediction (250-260kw from memory?) but I really would like to see better spool than that from this kind of combo. I bet it is still no slouch, however.

[M@&k]

Id have to agree with Ben cams wont help your cause and a cam gear on the exhaust I didn't notice any improvement to be honest..

How do they know the exhaust was a restriction?

Did they increase the boost with no power gains?

Id have to agree that its got more left in it for sure. But from your accounts I think they were a little lazy in trying to get the most out of your setup (puts flame suit on)

Stuff like a 10psi acutator should of been rectified before the turbo was installed. What size injectors and pump you running?

Whats your intake like?

What kind of intercooler are you running?

This was also my gut feel, which was why I was wondering what other thought. I don't know if they tried higher boost without gains, but seems odd to me to limit at 16 psi given the GTX should be better at higher pressure ratios. This along with the seemingly laggy (on the dyno plot at least) response, makes me think that there is something about the setup which is holding it back. Maybe the actuator, maybe the 0.82 housing.

Josh said he suspected the exhaust is becoming a restriction from the sound (higher pitch or something like that..?).

Intake is stock. Running a Blitz SE turn flow cooler so mostly using the stock cooling piping in the engine bay. Had an aluminium turbo intake made based on much discussion about the stock one sucking shut.

Didn't want to skimp on any supporting components. Wanted to make sure everything was in place to allow the turbo to do its thing...

How much laggier does it feel than the stocker? Do you have a boost gauge? I had a bit of a sniff around about PZP and found this thread which makes it seem like they start a bit "late" and with fast ramp rates going by some of the boost curves coming from there:

http://www.silviawa.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=71535

The turbo is always going to be laggier than the stocker, but how much is the question - hard one to quantify there really. It will be interesting to see what you think about it once you have driven it a bit... do some 3rd or 4th gear loading up from lower rpm and see how it comes alive. Do you have a boost gauge to track it a bit?

Also, not sure that the compressor is going to have a massive amount more in it - as I mentioned earlier I would have liked it to have seen near 270kw but I wouldn't have counted on any more than Mick's prediction (250-260kw from memory?) but I really would like to see better spool than that from this kind of combo. I bet it is still no slouch, however.

Don't have dedicated boost gauge, but do have the Profec controller in easy view. So far have only been able to boost in 1st and 2nd. Haven't even tried full throttle yet, lol. Honestly it's like night and day compared with stock. Stock used to build with extra push from high 2k rpm, but was gentle enough that you couldn't really tell where boost started. Now it's like hell breaks loose somewhere just before 4k rpm. Probably mundane for most of you guys, but for me at the moment it's a quite a handful, lol. It's loads of fun so far, looking forward to getting a free run on a freeway on ramp

If I'd seen the dyno plot for this turbo I wouldn't think it's a compelling option. Too laggy (going purely from dyno) for the power generated. I would even think that better results would be had with GT3071 on RB25. Given results / feedback I've seen on the 3067 on other vehicles, I can't shake the feeling that something about my setup is not quite right.

Will try and get real world impression of boost threshold and spool and report back. Thanks for comments guys, much appreciated.

[Dale FZ1]

Agreed that it needs to be driven a bit, and in varying conditions to assess if you're happy with it.

And Mick is also right on the money about the actuator. A 10psi unit has no real place on a turbo that won't realistically be making less than 17psi given the performance target.

The compressor performance map indicates about 43lb/min of flow, so figure 430-440 crank hp max fuelled on petrol. Fairly long held guesstimate of 80hp driveline losses in a Skyline, and this result looks right in the ballpark.

Where this 67mm thing seems to offer an improvement is in the middling flow area. It can pump efficiently at higher PR, so thinking that it needs the boost to come on hard and early. Something like 20-23psi through the midrange looks well within comfortable limits, and it should make a world of difference up to (guessing) 5500-6000rpm. High boost at high engine rpm appears pointless simply making the turbo spin faster for no extra flow.

The boost response curve (ie rate of build and point of max boost) isn't significantly different to other GT30 0.82 turbine combinations so perhaps this graph shouldn't be overly surprising. That graph is also a full load 100% throttle result, and it is quite possible that the part throttle transient response is noticeably better than the "old school" but very effective GT3076. Mark hopefully you have a mate with a Skyline running a 3076 so you could try them back to back.

The 0.63 housing option is the only thing I could realistically see make this little unit spin up fast/early and shift that graph to the left. There is a tradeoff with high end flow capacity but as Wolverine suggests, this baby compressor won't be pushing through as much air mass as the bigger brothers. So the smaller turbine "should" cope well enough that engine torque doesn't plummet due to rising turbine inlet pressures and decreasing scavenging efficiency in the chambers.

As a general comparison with the older and much praised HKS 2835 Pro S, I'd reckon this thing hits similar marks for max output. Pretty sure they were mostly spec'd with the 0.68 housing and sat midway between the GTRS (2871) and 3037 (3076) for both output and response. Making a 250-260rwkW from either a GTRS or the 2835 Pro S wasn't a walk in the park in 2005 when those turbos were pretty new and very highly rated. Wolverine has been through nearly all of those units at different times and so has more cred than any others I personally know. I'd be listening to him.

[Mick_o]

So are you running the stock air box Mark?

I think the cross flow cooler would be hurting your response as that hard turn at the outlet really strangles them!

I also believe that the stock cooler pipework would be hurting things too if you look at the 2 sharp 90's that are like a "convoluted style" just before guard will really slow airspeed down! I know these things may sound petty but honestly when looking to optimise a setup they all help

Do you Know what exhaust system you have because if its a Jap "bolt on" style you can bet its got reductions in it?

The .82 will be hurting you a couple of hundred rpm but don't think the actuator will help response so much but will help you hold pressure up top when boost levels increase..

[discopotato03]

It is a bit harder with new turbos because their characteristics are unknown . You are the first I know of to use a 0.82 housing on this turbo and it may pay you to look at results for GT3071Rs on RB25s . I remember there being mixed results on those with 0.63 and 0.82 turbine housings and I'm not sure if there was a solid fix . I searched around when they first came out because the hype at the time was much better response than a GT3076R but they never seemed to really achieve that .

I have read accounts of people replacing them with GT3067Rs and getting better all round results but this is on 2L fours and with the 0.63 turbine housing . I think the worst case scenario is changing the 0.82 housing and I'd only do that after fixing any other issues ie actuators .

My experience is that you have to have an effective exhaust if you think the turbine housing is borderline big , it worked on my 33 so if you have any known restrictions do something about them .

Also do you have any way of checking the tune settings because I'm interested to know where the ignition timing is at lighter loads .

A .

[M@&k]

Unfortunately I don't know anyone else with a Skyline for comparison

Mick, I'm running a pod filter. Exhaust is custom 3" from turbo back. It's fairly quiet so could be some restriction.

Dale, Disco, I went back and had a look at some previous stuff I'd put together and starting to think maybe just that my expectations were getting skewed by the hype and anecdotal evidence of this turbo. Below is a plot comparing my result with similar GT3071 result (i.e. stock cams, 0.82 housing). Seems about right?

Results I have noted for Pro S are much better from 3-4k rpm, but those doing more than 260kW all had cam mods (either adjustable cam gear or poncams). Perhaps I was just a bit over-excited about the whole thing

I'm due to go back to Galvsport after 1,000km for check up, and Josh mentioned he'd look at different actuator spring rate for then. Maybe that will help slightly.

And lastly, Disco, unfortunately I can't access tune with the Nistune. Don't have software or consult cable, sorry.

[wolverine]

Just drive it and enjoy it.

[AngryRB]

if you want to compare to a good 3076 then it will break traction in anger at 4000rpm roll on, I like watching lithium's youtube footage of

a 3076 ( correct if its not ) which is quite explosive ...

Its a shame you weren't allowed to actually watch it being tuned, my tuner insisted I watch my car being tuned and it was the best

experience ever, angry rb it was..

20psi in mid and 16psi after 5k

Edited July 3, 2014 by AngryRB

[scotty nm35]

Its a shame you weren't allowed to actually watch it being tuned, my tuner insisted I watch my car being tuned and it was the best

experience ever, angry rb it was.

^^ This.

I would never get a tune unless I could be there and converse with the tuner. After all it's my car, that I built. They wouldn't know where to start if there was a problem with it on the dyno. It's why I use only independent tuners not workshops.

[AngryRB]

yep best experience ever seeing an rb getting pissed on a dyno, sounds amazing when they are pushed hard, my tuner

Gavin Woods at Autotech (plug here) great bloke, wouldn't tune it without me there

Edited July 3, 2014 by AngryRB

[Dale FZ1]

That graph indicates the 3067 is at least on par but probably better than the older tech 3071. You couldn't use that as a completely valid comparison though, on the road and via seat of the pants is where it's at for me. Others reckon at the end of a quarter mile is where questions are answered too.

Skylinecouple is the only member I know who is running a 3071 0.82 combination. Maybe search for his results.

Wolverine is the go-to man here; so drive and enjoy

[M@&k]

Yeah would have been good to be there when tuned. Will just have to satisfy myself with driving.

Thanks all for feedback and support. Will post photos and comments on "real world" response on weekend.

[GTScotT]

I would never get a tune unless I could be there and converse with the tuner. After all it's my car, that I built. They wouldn't know where to start if there was a problem with it on the dyno. It's why I use only independent tuners not workshops.

Agreed. Going to Guilt-toy was by far the best tune experience I ever had. Full stop. He took my feedback and suggestions onboard and tried what I asked. By the end of it I was more than satisfied I had the best result possible, and that is saying A LOT as I have never once felt that way prior.

Can I also get some advice from you guys? I was told that to make use of higher boost, I really needed to look into freeing up flow more (cams, cam gears, and possibly freer exhaust). I was told the turbo actually has quite a bit more to give seeing as GTX series like higher boost, but couldn't get there without these changes. Does that sound right?

You definitely DO NOT need cams or gears to make use of more boost. RBs are well endowed in terms of cams from factory and you are WELL within the range of the stock cams, especially for intention of increasing boost. Though that's not to say you won't run into other issues.

As noted by Mick_O I believe intercooler plumbing etc is more than crucial. I had an off the shelf kit with lots of joiners prior and after installing some custom make 1 piece pipes the difference was astounding... To say it was noticeable was an understatement. Furthermore, if PZP think your exhaust is a possible restriction why didn't they drop it before the cat? Instant answer, instant result.

Sounds to me like they were too busy to invest the right amount of time into your car, and I am really sorry to put it to you that way. They definitely would have the experience to know an exhaust restriction doesn't require a new one to check.. And certainly would be smart enough to know that not dropping it from the cat may lead to a sales opportunity. That just gives me the shits TBH.

Source your own 14-18psi actuator and install it before you go. Then get them to ramp it up on the dyno and see how it goes. If it wants to detonate ask them to drop the exhaust before the cat and try again (2 bolts). If you can afford it I would also look at getting your cooler pipes all redone in 2.5". You can paint them black and use black joiners if you wish, the stock items should be turfed with a setup above 250wasps.

[M@&k]

Interesting, I didn't think the cooler would be an issue provided I had a decent brand (i.e. Blitz). Was originally thinking Plazmaman, but was talked out of it in order to keep engine bay looking as stock as possible.

You could very well be right Scott regarding PZP, especially seeing as they were doing the work second hand (via Galvsport).

Just happy to have the car back at the moment, and looking forward to getting reacquainted with new performance. At least now I have a good idea of what next steps are!

[M@&k]

Some photos as promised. Note the turbo fits on without any space on the manifold unlike most GT30 turbos. Galvsport also decided to go with a split dump option which seems to work fine. Aluminium intake pipe was made and they've used black Speedflow fittings for the BOV return and cam cover breather also. Looks quite neat. They needed to weld on an elbow onto the turbo outlet, and they've remade the outlet piping until it reaches the stock rubber elbow at the chassis opening.

Apart from pod filter all looks pretty stock still.

[Dale FZ1]

Looks very stock, well executed.

[discopotato03]

My 33 got 271 wheel wasps with the same intercooler , Insights Dyno , and that apparently is what the limit of a GTRS (HKS GT2871R 52T) was with Eflex E70 on my car .

It got to 17 pounds of boost and falling to 14 up high . Hopefully back on the rollers in a few weeks to see what difference a 3076 and a better exhaust makes .

Also doing a top feed conversion and a different reg and possibly pump . Now that I can get E85 I may change to that for a few more giggles , hate exhaust soot and ULP stink .

If these Blitz return flows are a limitation I'll soon find out .

The reason I mentioned GT3071Rs above was because of the dramas people had with turbine housing choice . I thought they found waste gating issues with the 0.63 and so so response with the 0.82 AR one . May be interesting to read their findings .

A .

[Ben C34]

No heat shield over turbo?

And I would try to hide the boost controller solenoid.