Questions On Overtraining, Plateau, Full Body Vs Split?

[Birds]

Don't trust scales to give you bodyfat...it's a load of shit.

[No Crust Racing]

Agreed, it's an OK point of reference that "something" is changing, but I don't trust them either.

[Birds]

This is still a better point of reference than scales

[No Crust Racing]

Well based on that I'm in the 12-15 range then so maybe the scales are OK.

The 10-12 is leaner than me, but I'm leaner than the 15 guy.

Edited February 26, 2013 by ActionDan

[jangles]

It's also if you don't have good abdominal shape/structure. I personally dont. I'm clearly leaner than mates that have more defined abs.

But it is only a guide

[No Crust Racing]

OK after having a proper go at that routine, it took 53mins, including keeping in my previous ab work and the dips because I like those at the end.

The order taken was.

stretch

crunches

squats (as mentioned these are quite hard on my ankle at the moment so only 25kg and only parallel, I also have to have my feet at roughly 45 degrees, further in i go the worse my ankle protests)

bench

SLDL

overhead press

ab work

bb curls

bb rows

bench style dips

Taking 2min breaks, I can see I'll be able to add weight to pretty much everything, but will hold off for now while some back/shoulder/arm twinges go away (from working on the car flat out lately).

I don't get the same pump after a workout as I did, especially in the bicep area, hopefully that will change a bit when i up the weight on a few things as im doing everything fairly light on.

[jangles]

Pump isn't a reflection of a good workout though. It's just a mental thing.

Do weighted chins and see if you get bicep pump.

Also, how are these twinges going away? Just because the pain eases doesn't mean the knotted muscle or impinged nerve does. Get a decent treatment.

Have you thought about doing conventional dead lifts? Or are they another day? Just thinking they will work your ankle a bit driving through the feet

[Birds]

It will change as you up the weights. The other day I set PBs in deadlifts and I struggled bad on barbell curls. Gotta remember that a "pump" does not mean you've worked harder or lifted more.

Recommend sticking crunches and barbell curls at the end too. You did curls before rows, which recruit biceps. Always do the compounds first and finish with isolation...start from the core and work out to the limbs.

[TTT]

just do all your CAARMING at home instead of at the gym.

[No Crust Racing]

  On 27/02/2013 at 10:09 PM, jangles said:

Pump isn't a reflection of a good workout though. It's just a mental thing.

Do weighted chins and see if you get bicep pump.

Also, how are these twinges going away? Just because the pain eases doesn't mean the knotted muscle or impinged nerve does. Get a decent treatment.

Have you thought about doing conventional dead lifts? Or are they another day? Just thinking they will work your ankle a bit driving through the feet

Yeah fair point re pump. I'm looking around for a cage with a chin up bar and dip station.

I rub and stretch out twinges myself usually. If an exercise movement is not aggravating it then I've usually done it working on the car etc so it goes away in time when I get a chance to rest.

I'm doing SLs because they were what was listed in starting strength, probably easier on the back too?

The ankle gets plenty of work via squats and 3k walk with some light jogging thrown in each day, the surgeon said it takes a good 12mths to come back from what I didi, it's only been 4.

  On 27/02/2013 at 10:14 PM, Birds said:

It will change as you up the weights. The other day I set PBs in deadlifts and I struggled bad on barbell curls. Gotta remember that a "pump" does not mean you've worked harder or lifted more.

Recommend sticking crunches and barbell curls at the end too. You did curls before rows, which recruit biceps. Always do the compounds first and finish with isolation...start from the core and work out to the limbs.

Yeah I can move curls to last easy enough,I thought I was showing some real dedication putting them fairly towards the end and doing squats first lol I've also tried to break it up with push/pull alternating to an extent.

Why move crunches? They help me warm up.

  On 27/02/2013 at 10:49 PM, TTT said:

just do all your CAARMING at home instead of at the gym.

Home = gym but what is Caarming?

[Birds]

  On 27/02/2013 at 11:04 PM, ActionDan said:

Yeah I can move curls to last easy enough,I thought I was showing some real dedication putting them fairly towards the end and doing squats first lol I've also tried to break it up with push/pull alternating to an extent.

Why move crunches? They help me warm up.

Have you ever known someone to pull their abs during a workout? You use them every minute of the day, you don't need to warm them up. You do, however, need them for compound exercises...so there's no point wearing them out in isolation...just like biceps. The common theme here is that if you are lifting heavy enough on the compounds, you'll barely be able to do the isolation because the muscle group has already been used.

Good work on alternatIng push and pull...definitely works well for me breaking things up like that. But yeah, compound first, isolation last.

As for the pump, as jangles said it's all mental...as are a lot of your habits like crunches to warm up. Forget that dude who said it, but fitness industry is a breeding ground for OCD behaviour. We get good results and misattribute everything we do towards them, including the pointless shit. Less is sometimes more, it's about working out smarter rather than harder. More important is that you have lifted more weight rather than how faxed you feel or tight your biceps are.

[No Crust Racing]

I've never pulled an ab but I've always done ab work. I'm not warming up the abs, just warming up myself.

I never used to put the crunches first, I only started doing it with this routine to switch things up and it helps me get blood flowing and a light sweat going, I can move it anywhere as I couldn't care less when/where I do it, I just don't like to start out with a heavy motion straight off the bat.

[TTT]

you don't know what CAARMING is?

youtube - Arnie the pump

Also - SLDL is not in starting strength. the program listed on the earlier pages is not from starting strength.

edit - seems all your injuries/twinges etc come from that anchor you call a motor.

Fit a VH45 and win at life.

Edited February 28, 2013 by TTT

[No Crust Racing]

Oh, isn't it?

So what is that program on the previous page then that has the SLDL in it?

VH45? Pfft, Blown VK56 or VQ37 or potato potato LSx

[Birds]

  On 27/02/2013 at 11:42 PM, ActionDan said:

I've never pulled an ab but I've always done ab work. I'm not warming up the abs, just warming up myself.

I never used to put the crunches first, I only started doing it with this routine to switch things up and it helps me get blood flowing and a light sweat going, I can move it anywhere as I couldn't care less when/where I do it, I just don't like to start out with a heavy motion straight off the bat.

Bad luck. Start out with a compound movement. That's what warm up sets are for. Your crunches are doing nothing but costing you good lifts, so stick them at the end. I stretch my arms and then it's straight into an 85kg bench for 10 reps. What makes me better than you, captain crunch?

[No Crust Racing]

Warm up sets arguably cost good lifts too...

I'm surprised, I thought you guys would be into warming up, good way to avoid injury which is why i do it now, that and being 30 means I'm not as injury resistant as I used to be.

Edited February 28, 2013 by ActionDan

[vspecIInur]

Haven't trained abs in years cause I know squatting uses your core like a motherf**ker. Good thing is most compound movements will work your core since that area is for stability.

[TTT]

The program listed is something Markos put together for beginners to lifting.

Starting Strength has even less volume and therefore less pump so you'd go crazy.

Edit - doing crunches is not a warm up for any exercise.

how would doing multiple bending of the middle be a warm up for anything you will use during any of the exercises listed in the program?

Edited February 28, 2013 by TTT

[No Crust Racing]

Ahh ok, well I'm happy enough with SLDL.

[Birds]

  On 28/02/2013 at 1:20 AM, ActionDan said:

Warm up sets arguably cost good lifts too...

I'm surprised, I thought you guys would be into warming up, good way to avoid injury which is why i do it now, that and being 30 means I'm not as injury resistant as I used to be.

We do warm up, with warm up sets.

Can you explain how crunches are going to stop a shoulder injury from bench or a leg injury in deads and squats? If anything they are more likely to cause injury, because you are weakening your core before doing big lifts. You need to have a tight core during squats and deads else you can end up with injury when you're going heavy. Warm up by doing the exercise lightly...you're not going to hurt anything by doing this.

It's like I said in my previous post, there's a whole heap of stuff you're misattributing to success...need to break the mental barriers.