An Alternative Ecu Choice Worth Considering.

[msmith]

I take it that the fast tuner is exactly that, a tool to get a quick and decent result? for people with limited experience/know how.

It doesnt surprise me that someone who has tuned cars in more countries than i've been too doesnt use it.

Will do, im quite excited. Should be many hours of learning and tinkering.

[Guilt-Toy]

get the ecu setup and working, and spend some time in the cruise maps to start with, tune it all the way up to around 120kpa.

[SargeRX8]

I'd be interested to see how your ignition table comes out. I think tuning the AFR to your targets is far simpler than tuning the ignition table. Ive got WARI installed(I don't have the ECU, just playing with the software) and the base map for an R33 looks a little heavy on the retard side. I'm deciding either between the adaptronic select or a haltech platinum pro. It would be awesome if I could tune it my self but the things that can go wrong if the ignition table isn't setup right isn't appealing. Even on cruise, Ive read if the ignition table is too retard you increase combustion temps. I think for any home tuner its probably worth while to get a EGT sensor installed.

I read someone here done back to back installs with a EGT sensor inside the collector housing of the mani and another one post turbo and the temperature change was 40 - 50 degrees less. Its a change but if you set a good upper limit and stay about 100 degrees under that, it should be safe.

Guilt toy what are your target AFR's on standard 98 fuel? What are your tips for a novice home tuner on working with the ignition table. Would you start with the standard base tune and work around that? If you have another tune, from a PFC for example, could you use that as a reference for the ignition map?

[scotty nm35]

My egt's were around 50 - 100 degrees cooler in the dump so you are about spot on. I would be running it in the manifold close to the head or at the merge.

I found having an egt gauge interesting, the tuner was definitely more confident to tune closer to the limits, and we were able to lean out the cruise while keeping an eye on the exhaust temps. It was especially reassuring having it at the track as I didn't see over 900c up the straight, even after hitting the soft limit a few times (damn auto box).

Some Japanese tuners prefer to watch the exhaust temp rather than the wideband from what I hear...

[SargeRX8]

You aren't wrong with that statement. Are all the EGT's the same? My main concern about putting it in the collector is if the thing ever snapped and my turbo had to eat it. Another concern which I thought of, and read on this site I think, is that the material the dump is made of(mine is a stock dump so cast iron) and the material of the heat probe have different expansion properties and this guy said that when his car heated up, the probe was coming loose. What should be the upper limit temps to be seeing? From what Ive read 850c is generally the good limit to stay at or below.

[scotty nm35]

As long as you get a good quality electronic gauge it should be accurate, and the tip should never snap off. (mine is around 5mm in diameter and looked perfect last time I removed it.) The material you tap it in to shouldn't make much difference, the thread is tapered so it will bite nice and tight into the tapped hole, as long as you use the correct tapered tap. If the Adaptronic has the ability to log 6 channels I would run a temp probe in each runner to allow individual cylinder trimming.

The max temps you want to see is dependant on timing. The less timing your engine is running the higher the exhaust temps will be compared to the combustion chamber. My engine runs very little timing under load as the boost is so high.

Imagine how soft the alloy pistons would be at that temperature, they would be so weak a little det would punch a hole straight through them. Luckily our pistons all run oil squirters underneath to keep temps under control, my stock pistons also have a donut shaped oil channel cast into them to help transfer the heat into the oil.

[jamesdt]

Thinking about getting one of these ecu's. w.a. Is finally getting e85 at one station. If I get some id1000's, fit a walbro e85 in tank pump, will this ecu be able to have 2 tunes on board, one for e85 and one for bp98 because I don't think I'll be able to rely on the one station to always have e85 avaliable ?

[scotty nm35]

Then get a flex tune, apparently you can get the ethanol content sensors for under $100 now, and they plug straight into the adaptronic.

[Guilt-Toy]

basically, i will explain to you what that answer means....

you can buy a sensor and put it in the fuel line, and it detects the ethanol content in your fuel lines and the ecu will adjust the tune accordingly on the fly, without you having to do anything really.

all you do is just put whatever fuel you can in the tank and the computer does the rest. does not matter if you only have half of e85 and half of 98, or a quarter of e85 and the rest 98, the ecu will sort it out for you without you even knowing.

[jamesdt]

thats appealing. will the car be tuned at its best potential then? does the tuner define what values of timing is set for 90% ethanol to 5% ethanol then the ecu scales accordingly?

and then if i was runnning premium 98 fuel mixed with no ethanol fuel at all it would be a completly different map?

i guess what im trying to work out is do i give the car to the tuner with e85 in the tank, get the car tuned, then drain the tank fill with bp98 tune the car again, then there is 2 different base lines to work with?

cheers

Edited July 9, 2013 by jamesdt

[Kinks]

Yes, you would normally get 2 completely separate tunes done - one at 0% ethanol and the other using 85% ethanol (and I mean actually 85% ethanol, E85 can vary in content).

The ECU then reads the output from the ethanol content sensor you install and interpolates between the two maps - so if you have 40% ethanol content in your tank currently then your ignition timing and fuel injection would be halfway between the two tuning maps.

That's a simplified version, anyway

[jamesdt]

Spoke to the tuner that I'm dealing with and his advised against going the ethanol flex sensor. He would much prefer to have two separate dedicated maps and has pushed away from using an adaptronic select, he did say tuning them is more difficult and they don't get a satisfactory result when using them. That's probably just in experience of tuning them... they advised on using a vi-pec plug in ecu. I'm guessing a v44 model would be sufficient enough over a v88?

[Guilt-Toy]

*sigh* sooo many tuners blame the ecu on their poor tuning skills.. it pisses me off. the vipec plug in will do the job the same as the adaptronic, but it is far more expensive.

the vi-pec plug ins now come with a v88 top board, which means they are fully sequential. plug ins are called plug in's. they are not called v44 or v88's.

[Lithium]

*sigh* sooo many tuners blame the ecu on their poor tuning skills.. it pisses me off. the vipec plug in will do the job the same as the adaptronic, but it is far more expensive.

the vi-pec plug ins now come with a v88 top board, which means they are fully sequential. plug ins are called plug in's. they are not called v44 or v88's.

Would love to try an Adaptronic, amongst other ECUs out there. People here even bag Links/ViPECs for their results - again, ultra suss that people blame their tools and annoying that they somehow manage to get the benefit of the doubt.

[jamesdt]

How long have the plug ins been fully sequential? There's one for sale at the moment but I'm not sure if it will be this will be this type is there a way of telling easily?

[jamesdt]

And these still run a wasted spark set up? just sequential injection? Cheers

[discopotato03]

No , sequential injection and six coil drivers .

A .

Edited July 14, 2013 by discopotato03

[Kinks]

Spoke to the tuner that I'm dealing with and his advised against going the ethanol flex sensor. He would much prefer to have two separate dedicated maps and has pushed away from using an adaptronic select, he did say tuning them is more difficult and they don't get a satisfactory result when using them. That's probably just in experience of tuning them... they advised on using a vi-pec plug in ecu. I'm guessing a v44 model would be sufficient enough over a v88?

sounds like flex fuel and tuning a different ECU are above his abilities. that is the nicest way I could possibly put it.

[STATUS]

Spoke to the tuner that I'm dealing with and his advised against going the ethanol flex sensor. He would much prefer to have two separate dedicated maps and has pushed away from using an adaptronic select, he did say tuning them is more difficult and they don't get a satisfactory result when using them. That's probably just in experience of tuning them... they advised on using a vi-pec plug in ecu. I'm guessing a v44 model would be sufficient enough over a v88?

Get a new tuner..

[STATUS]

So 440 Universal or Link G4 Storm for a built YB Cosworth with about 460hp A bit gutted to be changing the Pectel ecu but need something with more accessible software for some more mods and tunability

whats wrong with the pectal? dont buy an ecu till you talk to me i have something very special about to surface.