Deadlift Progress And Improvement Thread

[markos]

Most common mistake we see with deadlifting is people starting with their hips too low, trying to squat the weight up. Deadlift is predominantly a back movement, glutes, hammies, quads, traps etc all play a part, but squatting the weight up is wrong if your goal is too pull a big weight.

In early June last year I went to PTC Perths opening. Dan had trouble with his dead, he'd been stuck on 180kg from memory for ever, maybe 190kg. He asked for help, and after watching him squat the weight up, I asked him to start with his hips higher. Next rep he pulled 200kg for the first time after missing it for 2 years.

At Nats this year he pulled 220kg, still in the same 82.5kg weight class. He gained 30-40kg in 12 months after being stuck for 2 years.

Good move Birds

[Birds]

Sorry I probably didn't explain that one well enough. I always stress deadlifts as being back exercise, too!

I didn't as such squat the weight up, I always used my back, lifting from a hips raised position...but I used to start in an ATG squatting position simply to build momentum with a big hip raise, before lifting weight off the ground with my back.

The problem with this, is that it resulted in a bit too much back rounding for my liking, because my lower back would curve as I raised my hips. It also meant my arms started off fairly slackened, and that my legs had to do extra work because of the hip raise every rep. This movement worked for me, but it started presenting a bit of pain as I got closer to the 200kg goal.

But now that I'm starting the movement already in the hips raised position, I can focus on lifting with a tighter/straighter lower back and my arms straight. Feeling good so far, just took some getting used to, swapping from one starting position to another.

[markos]

Oh, we call that yanking. I feel its a very dangerous practice. The problem with yanking is your hips move out of position in the initial stages, making lockouts extremely difficult.

Children out there reading this, "dont be a yanker"

[Birds]

lol

Yep, I was a true Aussie yanker. Never had an issue getting the weight off the floor and up to my knees, but lockouts were always a struggle on 1RMs. Hopefully that changes with the new starting position.

[markos]

It absolutely will, having your hips in the correct position as you approach lockout is critical

[L33SH]

One day I will get my form right!

[markos]

I have a client, Phil, started around 3 weeks ago, in his 30's, trained on and off when he was younger.

He started with 120kg x 5 on the deads, about average for the first timer here, tonight he pulled 200kg

[Mitcho_7]

Thats a solid improvement in 3 weeks!

[bozodos]

maybe I've been deadlifting wrong :S

[No Crust Racing]

How often have you had him doing deads or dead assistance exercises?

[markos]

Once or twice a week, depends how many sessions he does, but thats not why he deadlifted 200kg

I should mention Phil is not training in the PL section, he has no interest in PL, he is training with me.

I dont normally bother posting what regular clients do, but maybe I should.

Chris, Jacks mom, started 5 weeks ago, never set foot in a gym before.

On Wednesday she benched 55kg x 1, squatted 60kg x 10

Anyway, thats off topic in here

[r31slpr]

I have a client, Phil, started around 3 weeks ago, in his 30's, trained on and off when he was younger.

He started with 120kg x 5 on the deads, about average for the first timer here, tonight he pulled 200kg

Was that 200 for reps or a single? Good job either way

[Birds]

How much does Phil weigh, Markos?

[bozodos]

since you're around Markos, to improve my fairly ordinary deadlift, and I best off sticking with the 3 x 15 SLDL, or should I do shorter sets with more weight of regular deadlift?

[markos]

He only pulled 200kg x 1 lol

I guess he weighs high 80's low 90's

Bozo, its not the reps or sets thats the key, regardless of what info I give on the internet, your not going to match the results from our gym, with 2 coaches overlooking everything our lifters do. Another boy Alex, I've mentioned him before, trained for a few years, managed a 180kg squat. In 10 weeks he's added 40kg, but this 220kg squat is nowhere near a max effort.

[bozodos]

Well all I can do is the best that I can isn't it. I'm asking for advice on how to progress myself effectively, not to be constantly reminded that I'll never be up to the standard of a PTC trainee, which is an ongoing thing with you in all of the fitness threads.

You can spam all the youtube links that you like, but it's hardly inspiring when you follow it up with "oh but unless you train at a PTC, don't even HOPE to get near this". You may consider it a realistic outlook, but regardless how is that of any use to any of us.

I don't have any strength coaches or gyms to train at, so I'm simply after advice that I can implement by myself.

Edited August 22, 2013 by bozodos

[markos]

Bozo, calm down, youre frustrated. In the 6 years since I've had PTC I've NEVER been able to replicate on line efforts with in gym ones. Thats a fact I have to live with. Maybe its me, maybe I'm a crap online coach, or maybe the cure isnt in the words I type.

Telling someone to do 3 x 8 isn't spectacular information or new, its been around for a hundred years, so is that what you want me to say? Do you think that will make you stronger? I'm hesitant because when you fail you'll say my programming or advice is crap. The videos which you seem to dislike are used to demonstrate that my coaching does work for my lifters at my gym.

How else can I possibly put that? In the beginning I was criticised because our lifts were gym lifts, not competition lifts in a proper environment. So in 2010 I took my lifters to our first ever meet, CAPO State Titles, they set 54 National Records, so everyone shut up.

With guys who struggle to understand the effort one must put out to achieve anything, they attack my lifters, coaching, gym and now vids, all through frustration, sigh

Here you go Bozo, do 5 x 5 regular deadliest, increase the weight when you make the reps. Dont tell anyone else though, but thats the BEST set/rep scheme

Are we friends again?

[rev210]

Bozodos, the point is that peoples potential is higher than they themselves sometimes think. This gap between belief /commitment and capabillity physically is what a coach can help with greatly. Assuming form is spot on also.

Last night i helped a mate train who i had shown how to deadlift a few weeks earlier. I stopped him before he lifted what he considered a great improvement weight and added 40kgs to the bar.

He protested that it was impossible for him. I told him he could do it . I also told him to not bother trying if he wasnt going to listen and reload the lighter weight.

He lifted it. It was very hard for him but, the form was great.

It is much harder to challenge yourself on a relatively new movement without a coach. Or to break mental crutches with familiar ones. With two experienced coaches you can safely train very deeply in the performance zone.

So with even a single rep its not easy to manage to work in that zone.

[bozodos]

Markos:

I was more frustrated at you putting up video after video of your lifters, while telling everyone else that they won't get to this level, combined with your often vague or confusing responses to questions - I think the regulars here all know your credentials with the results that you get from people, and it's why I specifically ask YOU for advice over the millions of fitness blogs, forum threads etc.

I know that effort is number 1, all I'm trying to find out is if with my crappy deadlift vs bench and squat, which variant would be more effective for me to get better at deadlifting, rather than potentially wasting time.

I'm not after a magic program or anything, and why would I blame you for myself failing? That would be stupidity, and I don't intend to fail.

rev:yeah I hear you, but I literally don't have any options other than regular gym training.

Edited August 22, 2013 by bozodos

[-FIGJAM-]

maybe i am reading this a little different,

I think Markos has said the exercises and the reps you are doing are fine, they work and will do the job, but it is YOU who needs to put in the effort and hard work to get to the big 200kg deadlift.

Whether the effort needs to come from food (as in my case to achieve my goal), more reps or extra sets, you have to put in the effort to achieve the goal both inside and outside the gym. The reason his lifters in his gym reach these goals is because they are pushed and punished until they do reach the goal.