Nbn Change.org Petition?

[Cowboy1600]

Hahahaha....now you're arguing against the Corporate Plan. The same plan which contains figures, updates and an explanation of the assumptions underlying the plan and how they came about. Yet you still argue it's hollow and in the same breath claim the NBN will cost $60B plus which is based on Tony Abbott, Mr "I'm no tech head", and nothing more.

The NBN will miss targets and it will achieve targets. That is inevitable. No undertaking of this size has ever been attempted in Australia before so it is new ground but the brains behind it are robust - they aren't a bunch of politico lackys brought in to do the bidding of the government of the day. They are genuine experts with little to gain, everything to lose is shit goes majorly pear shaped. But still you will argue on based on your "expert" opinion.

You're really out of your depth in this discussion.

[Cowboy1600]

Politics aside.

Fiber is a far better medium for heavy data traffic and more reliable than wireless. Who ever thinks differently should be shot.

Fiber > Copper > Wireless

I'm sure our links overseas will also get bigger pipes - but that will be for a different project and usually be left till last - from memory I think there was a project a few years ago, where a private company have already (or at least in the process) of upgrading our links to Asia something to the tune of 6 terabits per second.

That pipe is already laid. Check the map I linked earlier. There are more planned, too. The whole argument about our pipe out being too small to make use of the NBN is yet another baseless, factless argument

[bozodos]

FTTH and within Australia all of a sudden makes us a LOT more valuable to hosting companies and e-commerce. Not to mention that once the fibre is rolled out, it is scalable WELL into the future. having HFC here, downloads at 11-12 megaBYTES a second take internet to a whole other level, especially when it comes to high quality streaming etc.

From a corporate point of view, we've had to install load balancing DSL links because our 100/8 cable connection is at maximum usage all day, every day, and even then it's not enough. There is nowhere else to go in terms of bandwidth without paying tens of thousands of dollars a month.

[Cowboy1600]

This is by no means exhaustive, but as an example of what the NBN will do, we have 1800 mortgage brokers plus their support staff using our web based CRM software all over the country. Many of them work from home and almost all of them visit their clients at home. Faster, RELIABLE, internet will make them more productive. On top of that we can expand the range of offerings knowing that most people will have the bandwidth and reliability to use them. FTTH is the best solution for a wealthy nation like Australia, and make no mistake, Australia is one of the wealthiest nations on earth. The cost of FTTH is very small in the grand scheme of things.

[djr81]

This is what you get from Telstra when you ask about their NBN plans- $80 a MONTH, 12MBps and it gets slowed after 5 Gig. This is the fundamental disconnection - no one is talking about how much it will cost to connect to this overblown pile of &$%^.

Plans and Products

The NBN can give you superfast downloads, but that’s just the beginning. Add the right devices and gadgets from Telstra and there’s so much more you can do.

• 

  Telstra T-Bundle^® Connect 5GB

  Data

  5GB data

  Plan length

  24 months

  Includes

  • Free Telstra T-Gateway™
  • Download line speeds into the home - up to 12Mbps (speeds slowed to 256kbps once 5GB is reached)
  • Local Calls

  $80 per month

  $1,968. Min cost based on T-Bundle and a $48 activation fee for new Telstra customers.

  Find out more

  Buy now

• 

  Telstra T-Bundle^® Extend 200GB

  Data

  200GB data

  Plan length

  24 months

  Includes

  • Free Telstra T-Gateway™
  • Download line speeds into the home - up to 12Mbps (speeds slowed to 256kbps once 200GB is reached)
  • Local & national calls to standard fixed line numbers

  $100 per month

  $2,448. Min cost based on T-Bundle and a $48 activation fee for new Telstra customers.

  Find out more

  Buy now

• 

  Telstra T-Bundle^® Extreme 500GB

  Data

  500GB data

  Plan length

  24 months

  Includes

  • Free Telstra T-Gateway™
  • Download line speeds into the home - up to 12Mbps (speeds slowed to 256kbps once 500GB is reached)
  • Calls to Australian mobiles

  $130 per month

  $3,168. Min cost based on T-Bundle and a $48 activation fee for new Telstra customers.

  Find out more

  Buy now

[Cowboy1600]

Wow, Telstra pricing certainly seals it, doesn't it?!

Of course you could also check pricing from other ISPs and see what the norm is, couldn't you? Or you could pull an Abbott and use selective data to misconstrue the truth.

Let's look at iiNet -

100/100Gb @ 25/5 - $70/month which include Nodephone - so for all intents and purposes $40/month for 100/100 at a static 25/5....

500/500 @ 100/40 - $100/month including Nodephone - Again, essentially $70/month for potentially 1Tb at 100/40....

NBN-1 (Light Users)20GB + 20GB(peak + offpeak)$1.75 per GBNBN-2 (Medium Users)100GB + 100GB(peak + offpeak)$0.40 per GBNBN-3 (Heavy Users)500GB + 500GB(peak + offpeak)$0.10 per GB

Standard12/1 Mbps*Fast25/5 Mbps*Faster50/20 Mbps*Fastest100/40 Mbps*

your plan $99.95 per month.

Minimum total cost over a 24 month contract on the NBN-3 plan (500GB + 500GB) + fastest turbo pack is $2398.80.
* These are maximum NBN access port speeds. Data transfer speeds to individual premises may differ. For further information, visit our article on NBN performance.

Internode -

NBN Fibre Broadband Plans Monthly Price & Quota 30 GB 300 GB 600 GB 1,000 GB Bronze - 12/1 Mbps * $49.95 ^†$69.95 ^†$89.95 ^†$139.95 ^†Bronze Standard Unit Cost of 1 GB ˆ $1.67 ˆ $0.23 ˆ $0.15 ˆ $0.14 ˆ Silver - 25/5 Mbps * $54.95 ^†$74.95 ^†$94.95 ^†$144.95 ^†Silver Standard Unit Cost of 1 GB ˆ $1.83 ˆ $0.25 ˆ $0.16 ˆ $0.14 ˆ Gold - 50/20 Mbps * $64.95 ^†$84.95 ^†$104.95 ^†$154.95 ^†Gold Standard Unit Cost of 1 GB ˆ $2.17 ˆ $0.28 ˆ $0.17 ˆ $0.15 ˆ Platinum - 100/40 Mbps * $74.95 ^†$94.95 ^†$114.95 ^†$164.95 ^†Platinum Standard Unit Cost of 1 GB ˆ $2.50 ˆ $0.32 ˆ $0.19 ˆ $0.16 ˆ

^† Read more: Total Minimum Prices | Setup Fees | Equipment Requirements | Terms & Conditions

* These are the nominal NBN access port speeds, and are not necessarily indicative of actual Internet data transfer speeds - learn more about NBN Fibre speeds and performance.

ˆ The Standard Unit Cost is for 1 GB of data included in plan. Excess data usage is shaped.

There are just two examples demonstrating that you are talking out your ass. iiNet has taken the lions share of NBN customers thus far and it's not hard to see why.

I currently pay $70/month for 60Gb of average at best ADSL2 plus phone and call costs. On average we pay about $110-$120/month for fixed phone and 60Gb. With iiNet and NBN I'd pay $80 for 100/100 @50/20 saving myself a not inconsiderable $30-40/month while getting more download at faster speeds and far more reliability

Telstra is a f**king rip off. They always have been, and according to the shitty NBN pricing, it looks like they always will be.

[R31Nismoid]

Hahahaha....now you're arguing against the Corporate Plan.

Well given you're the one stating that it's full of 'facts' and using it as your evidence in your arguments... That sounds perfectly logical

[djr81]

Wow, Telstra pricing certainly seals it, doesn't it?!

Of course you could also check pricing from other ISPs and see what the norm is, couldn't you? Or you could pull an Abbott and use selective data to misconstrue the truth.

Let's look at iiNet -

100/100Gb @ 25/5 - $70/month which include Nodephone - so for all intents and purposes $40/month for 100/100 at a static 25/5....

500/500 @ 100/40 - $100/month including Nodephone - Again, essentially $70/month for potentially 1Tb at 100/40....

NBN-1 (Light Users)20GB + 20GB(peak + offpeak)$1.75 per GBNBN-2 (Medium Users)100GB + 100GB(peak + offpeak)$0.40 per GBNBN-3 (Heavy Users)500GB + 500GB(peak + offpeak)$0.10 per GB

Standard12/1 Mbps*Fast25/5 Mbps*Faster50/20 Mbps*Fastest100/40 Mbps*

your plan $99.95 per month.

Minimum total cost over a 24 month contract on the NBN-3 plan (500GB + 500GB) + fastest turbo pack is $2398.80.

* These are maximum NBN access port speeds. Data transfer speeds to individual premises may differ. For further information, visit our article on NBN performance.

Internode -

NBN Fibre Broadband Plans Monthly Price & Quota 30 GB 300 GB 600 GB 1,000 GB Bronze - 12/1 Mbps * $49.95 ^†$69.95 ^†$89.95 ^†$139.95 ^†Bronze Standard Unit Cost of 1 GB ˆ $1.67 ˆ $0.23 ˆ $0.15 ˆ $0.14 ˆ Silver - 25/5 Mbps * $54.95 ^†$74.95 ^†$94.95 ^†$144.95 ^†Silver Standard Unit Cost of 1 GB ˆ $1.83 ˆ $0.25 ˆ $0.16 ˆ $0.14 ˆ Gold - 50/20 Mbps * $64.95 ^†$84.95 ^†$104.95 ^†$154.95 ^†Gold Standard Unit Cost of 1 GB ˆ $2.17 ˆ $0.28 ˆ $0.17 ˆ $0.15 ˆ Platinum - 100/40 Mbps * $74.95 ^†$94.95 ^†$114.95 ^†$164.95 ^†Platinum Standard Unit Cost of 1 GB ˆ $2.50 ˆ $0.32 ˆ $0.19 ˆ $0.16 ˆ

^† Read more: Total Minimum Prices | Setup Fees | Equipment Requirements | Terms & Conditions

* These are the nominal NBN access port speeds, and are not necessarily indicative of actual Internet data transfer speeds - learn more about NBN Fibre speeds and performance.

ˆ The Standard Unit Cost is for 1 GB of data included in plan. Excess data usage is shaped.

There are just two examples demonstrating that you are talking out your ass. iiNet has taken the lions share of NBN customers thus far and it's not hard to see why.

I currently pay $70/month for 60Gb of average at best ADSL2 plus phone and call costs. On average we pay about $110-$120/month for fixed phone and 60Gb. With iiNet and NBN I'd pay $80 for 100/100 @50/20 saving myself a not inconsiderable $30-40/month while getting more download at faster speeds and far more reliability

Telstra is a f**king rip off. They always have been, and according to the shitty NBN pricing, it looks like they always will be.

Well I could check all sorts of things. But I will never connect to that pile of *#%$ simply because it stops working when I leave the house, making it utterly useless. Also it will not be connected near home any time soon because I dont live in a marginal western Sydney electorate.

Anyway the speed arguments are rubbish because most plans appear to be limited to slow speeds anyway. How long does 5 gig take to download at 25MB/sec - about 3 and a half minutes? Then you are back to near on dial up speeds or downloading stuff at 3 am.

The point is the NBN is great if you are a big user and downloads dozens or hundreds of GB a month. But for everyone else (Which is the overwhelming majority of people) it is a gold plated solution to a problem that doesnt exist.

Edited April 17, 2013 by djr81

[iseekool]

That is true for the time being - for an "average" user. I guess as the population grows and internet content becomes more complex/files grow - It's a good thing it has started rolling out.

Well I could check all sorts of things. But I will never connect to that pile of *#%$ simply because it stops working when I leave the house, making it utterly useless. Also it will not be connected near home any time soon because I dont live in a marginal western Sydney electorate.

Anyway the speed arguments are rubbish because most plans appear to be limited to slow speeds anyway. How long does 5 gig take to download at 25MB/sec - about 3 and a half minutes? Then you are back to near on dial up speeds or downloading stuff at 3 am.

The point is the NBN is great if you are a big user and downloads dozens or hundreds of GB a month. But for everyone else (Which is the overwhelming majority of people) it is a gold plated solution to a problem that doesnt exist.

[Cowboy1600]

Well given you're the one stating that it's full of 'facts' and using it as your evidence in your arguments... That sounds perfectly logical

Hahahaha....yeah, cause the Corporate Plan is riddled with meaningless data as opposed to you facts which come from Alan Jones.

Have you even looked at the Corporate Plan? I doubt it. You think your opinion counts but when it's based on nothing but your gut feeling and is opposed to all available data then there's a false equivalency going on. Your opinion does not deserve equal footing against the weight of evidence.

It's become patently obvious that you haven't the slightest clue about the NBN, the funding of it, the rollout of it or the potential of it not to mention the need for it.

I bet you're a climate change denier, too.

[mad082]

I don't know much about the nbn, nor do i really care. What i will say is that until such time that it is better value than adsl2 (in terms of data allowance vs dollars spent) i won't be connecting to it. Adsl2 is plenty fast for what i need (with peak speed about 1.4mb/s).

And sure the nbn may have plenty of potential, but potential doesn't always mean it will work out that way. Especially when the government (either side) is involved. So because of that alone i think it is safe to say that nismoid's prediction of it going over budget and under used will be somewhat accurate.

[Cowboy1600]

I don't know much about the nbn, nor do i really care. What i will say is that until such time that it is better value than adsl2 (in terms of data allowance vs dollars spent) i won't be connecting to it. Adsl2 is plenty fast for what i need (with peak speed about 1.4mb/s).

And sure the nbn may have plenty of potential, but potential doesn't always mean it will work out that way. Especially when the government (either side) is involved. So because of that alone i think it is safe to say that nismoid's prediction of it going over budget and under used will be somewhat accurate.

Of course it will go over budget and over time. Only a moron would think otherwise. No private or public endevour of such size has ever been done on budget and time. But $60B is just plucked out of Neil Mitchell's ass. Total Government borrowing is currently predicted at a smidge over $30B. If that hits $35B or even close to $40B, I won't be surprised, nor concerned. Hell, even if it hit the "out of think air" $60B I wouldn't be concerned. The copper network is rooted and expensive to maintain. A fiber network will save many billions over time on this alone. On top of that it's a publicly owned piece of infrastructure which will provide returns to the government instead of Telstra.

As for value for money, the figures are already done. The NBN will be cheaper for the vast majority of Australians. What people continually forget is you'll no longer pay 430 just to have copper running to your house. So straight away you save $30. On top of that calls are much cheaper and on top of that the actual cost for internet is the same and in some cases cheaper than what's available.

Oh, and you'll be connecting whether you like it or not. The government has an agreement with Telstra that you'll be on the NBN 18 months after fiber is available.

Compare TPG "Unlimited" plan with phone at $80/month to iiNet 100/100 @25/5 for $65/month + call costs (most of which are free/very cheap) and the NBN plan is and absolute winner. No contention, no congestion, no losing f**king internet just cause it's raining, none of that shit. Just fast, reliable internet for the same or cheaper than what you can get now.

[*LOACH*]

Not that it is needed as Cowboy is doing a great job of demonstrating the benefits of the NBN but people might also want to consider the physical aspects of both systems. Both systems require about 60 000 cabinets to be installed around Australia. The NBNs ones are the size of a couple of eskies whereas the Abbott proposal involves much larger cabinets. Also take into account the cabling will be much more of an eyesore with the copper network and the fact that the cabinets for the Abbott system require batteries which need to be replaced every few years.

[gregor]

I'm looking forward to the NBN, as has been said I'll save money and gain speed over an average ADSL / ADSL2 connection with line rental. One thing I'm not sure about is how the coalition plan will affect the reasonable amount of people who are unlucky enough to be on a RIM or are otherwise limited to having ADSL rather than ADSL2 due to additional services being tacked on without proper investment by the telcos.

[Mayuri Krab]

I hope iinet will roll their NBN network into my area, although I'm not putting high hopes on that... (their ADSL 2+ network isn't even in my area yet).

So in the mean time I'm stuck with their offnet plan & aftering paying $10 extra a month for "turbo plan" to unlock that stupid Telstra 1.5mbps cap, I think Telstra have put me on one of their ADSL 1 ports, since my modem can only sync at ~8mbps even though I'm supposed to be <1km within the exchange.

f**king gay

[bozodos]

I think you'd find that while for a lot of people, current ADSL speeds are 'enough', there are a couple of factors to consider:

1) DSL is at it's upper limits and can't really be upgraded further

2) the underlying Telstra infrastructure is obsolete and in dire need of replacement anyway (gee wonder if that's coincidental with the company being privatised...) Why on earth would you not seize this oppurtunity to upgrade it all!

3) whilst your average 10-16Mb/s DSL connection is adequate for one user, when you have multiple users and devices in one house or business, it very quickly becomes a bottleneck. It's only going to get worse in the future.

4) the increased marketing of 'cloud' applications and services + high definition streaming / media content etc. Ever tried uploading gigabytes of stuff to say DropBox from your DSL connection? that's right it truly sucks.

The pricing from most of the ISP's is still in the ludicrous stage, but i think you all need to remember what the pricing was like when ADSL was the new thing, and ADSL 2, HFC cable, 56k dialup etc etc. With a larger userbase it'll start to come down once the ISP's have larger numbers of customers who don't use all of their data quota (the premise of which most ISP's run on). The bigpond plans are a f**king joke as per usual, 256k capping on the nbn is utterly farcical.

Unfortunately it looks like our area will miss out on the next NBN rollouts yet again despite having several large fibre links through here since we already have a HFC and fixed wireless service available (wireless spectrum is completely full, HFC is only within the border of the older part of the town).

[mad082]

Just looked up the nbn rollout for my area. We aren't in the first 3 year roll out plan. My guess is that we will be getting it somewhere closer to the 2020 completion date for the actual nbn. From other posts in this thread I'd thought the completion date was 2015, but according to the nbn site, that is for the transit network (basically joins all the main exchanges). But the roll out to everyone's homes may take another 5 years, so its going to be a while before i have to start looking at plans.

[djr81]

I think you'd find that while for a lot of people, current ADSL speeds are 'enough', there are a couple of factors to consider:

1) DSL is at it's upper limits and can't really be upgraded further

2) the underlying Telstra infrastructure is obsolete and in dire need of replacement anyway (gee wonder if that's coincidental with the company being privatised...) Why on earth would you not seize this oppurtunity to upgrade it all!

3) whilst your average 10-16Mb/s DSL connection is adequate for one user, when you have multiple users and devices in one house or business, it very quickly becomes a bottleneck. It's only going to get worse in the future.

4) the increased marketing of 'cloud' applications and services + high definition streaming / media content etc. Ever tried uploading gigabytes of stuff to say DropBox from your DSL connection? that's right it truly sucks.

The pricing from most of the ISP's is still in the ludicrous stage, but i think you all need to remember what the pricing was like when ADSL was the new thing, and ADSL 2, HFC cable, 56k dialup etc etc. With a larger userbase it'll start to come down once the ISP's have larger numbers of customers who don't use all of their data quota (the premise of which most ISP's run on). The bigpond plans are a f**king joke as per usual, 256k capping on the nbn is utterly farcical.

Unfortunately it looks like our area will miss out on the next NBN rollouts yet again despite having several large fibre links through here since we already have a HFC and fixed wireless service available (wireless spectrum is completely full, HFC is only within the border of the older part of the town).

Not that I care, but:

Telstra was privatised starting in 1997 and the last of it was shoved into the future fund in 2006. So it was not coincidental with anything. The government got the best coin for it in 2009 at $7.40 a share (Now worth 4.76). Bargain. Something somehow related to hype and the internet. Glad that has changed now. It has, hasn't it?

Most people dont have multiple users in a house wanting to upload/download HD simulataneously. I certainly dont. I really dont care how long peoples mega uploads of Doctor Who take.

[bozodos]

really? nearly every person I know now gets all of their music and TV off the internet or IPTV based services to cite one example, let alone services like Skype and other VOIP type services.

I don't think you're really getting what I'm saying here - on a typical DSL connection, even two people using YouTube simultaneously will flood it, and the technology is getting more and more bandwidth hungry. There is NO WHERE to go with dsl (VDSL FTTN is utter crap btw).

[djr81]

 

really? nearly every person I know now gets all of their music and TV off the internet or IPTV based services to cite one example, let alone services like Skype and other VOIP type services.

I don't think you're really getting what I'm saying here - on a typical DSL connection, even two people using YouTube simultaneously will flood it, and the technology is getting more and more bandwidth hungry. There is NO WHERE to go with dsl (VDSL FTTN is utter crap btw).

Well almost no one I know does that, which is probably why I know them - because they occasionally get outside their houses. The overwhelming majority of people just dont want or need the kind of speeds the NBN purports to have. It is only the IT fanbois who are making all the noise and getting all bitter and twisted between 100Mbps and 25Mbps.