Does this bother you?

[SS8_Gohan]

I just to say that NO GTR engine, 32, 33 or 34 has 206kw's from the factory!!! That is the same for the Twin Turbo Supra, etc.

For a stock GTR to make about 190kw's at wheels (some mag did it HPI or something, and also someone over at SDU ran their stock as a rock GTR on a dyno) taking into account roughly 30% drivetrain loss, GTR engines from the factory make about 250-260kw's. R34's prob more 260kw's. Which makes 100% sense as a R34 NEO RB25DET makes 206kw's, yet the R34 GTR with the RB26DETT is also suppose to make 206kw's? I think not.

GTR engines are 250-260kw's. End of story.

It was the stupid 'gentlemans agreement' between the manufactures and i think maybe the government? 206kw limit. THat is no longer.

You have a GTR?

cheers.

[knore]

what a suprise :slap:

ok:

"It still amazes me how advanced japanese engines are, the XR6T is a 4.0 L turbo.

Making 250kw.

GTR engine is only 2.6, and is very close to 250kw, even tho its stated to be 206

Hayabusa makes 114 kw from 1.3 litres. Those Japs are far too advanced."

- Ahh yes they are, thats what im saying.. what your trying to say is?

"15 years later, ford releases a 4L engine and its only making similar power...

Did you want it to make 400kw...?"

- If emissions allowed, yes.

"But the RB26DETT made alot closer to 250kw on standard boost, not 1 bar.

No it didn't."

-I beg to differ, i know a number of GTRs and a number of aticles ive read that state the GTR is a fair amount more than 206kw standard. Maybe not 250kw, but close enough. Same with the supra .. nsx.. soarer twin turbo, etc they were all approximate agreed on 206kw, thats why they all state to have 206. But none of them have exacly 206, that number is usually a little 'watered down' in terms of its real power. It came about so one didnt come out heaps more powerful than another and dominate sales because of it. Its named the 'Gentlemens agrement'.

"So what if there isnt a justifyable market for turbos in australia, Ford is one of the, if not the biggest and most profitable motor company in the world, therefor you would think they would be making the most technelogically advanced cars available"

- I know they released the ford escort cosworth, and it went very well... But what is your point?

This should mean they design even better turbo cars now..

"Ford and holden are too concerned on making there heavy cars go faster. They need to design lighter cars and then they will wreak havok."

-How isnt this true? U tell me one car ford has made recently that is turbo, and light, and made an impact on the performance genre?

The truth is, they just release updated models of cars already in existance.. and just put a bigger engine in it.

*Now if u want to continue this, do it through PM. Cos this is stupid, havent u got anything better to do?

[knore]

I just to say that NO GTR engine, 32, 33 or 34 has 206kw's from the factory!!! That is the same for the Twin Turbo Supra, etc.  

For a stock GTR to make about 190kw's at wheels (some mag did it HPI or something, and also someone over at SDU ran their stock as a rock GTR on a dyno) taking into account roughly 30% drivetrain loss, GTR engines from the factory make about 250-260kw's. R34's prob more 260kw's. Which makes 100% sense as a R34 NEO RB25DET makes 206kw's, yet the R34 GTR with the RB26DETT is also suppose to make 206kw's? I think not.  

GTR engines are 250-260kw's. End of story.

It was the stupid 'gentlemans agreement' between the manufactures and i think maybe the government? 206kw limit. THat is no longer.  

You have a GTR?

cheers.

Thank you, someone who knows what they are talking about.

[Adam_RSX]

The XR6 does what it needs to do with a minimum of fuss. It's a family car not a sports car. It's big, roomy and torquey off the line. Why should it need to have a higher specific power output just because Ford is a huge company? It does what it was designed to do, and the base engine wasn't designed from the start as a DOHC turbo'd engine

High specific power outputs are good (yay for the FJ20 in DR30 RSX guise, 100hp/l in 1984, and yay for the Daihatsu CB70 which also made 100hp/l in 86) but you end up with narrow powerbands and torque delivery that suits light cars with gearing suited to sprinting instead of cruising (quite why the DR30 is geared to do 120 in second I don't know, but......)

[Adam_RSX]

And for the record, everyone knows that the topline Jap engines have been making more than 206kw, you just have to look at the power and torque figues and what revs they have been quoted at to see that they have been increasing power over the years. BUT, they don't put RB26's in family cars do they? No RB26 Cimas (Yes, Toyota makes the Aristo but its just as heavy as a XR6)

For a big heavy car the XR6T does pretty well. If they wanted to they could probably release a 260-280kw XR6 but a) they don't need to and B) its not good politics to release cars with huge power atm... HSV have dropped the GTS range

[knore]

Yeh they designed it so it could be thrashed around and used like a work horse, but still have the power there when u punch it.

I like them, i just think it would be cool for them to design a new turbo performance car. Not like they dont have the moolah

[Emre]

GTR engines are 250-260kw's. End of story.

You have a GTR?

Nah, i don't mate.

But here is what i collected from the internet and some magazine articles.

Oh, i also attended a dyno day once.

Hayabusa makes 114 kw from 1.3 litres. Those Japs are far too advanced."

- Ahh yes they are, thats what im saying.. what your trying to say is?  

Hayabusa has a compression of 11:1 and redlines at 10900 rpm. How long do you think, in between rebuilds...?

Here is the point : You can't compare engines on power outputs alone.

"Ford and holden are too concerned on making there heavy cars go faster. They need to design lighter cars and then they will wreak havok."

-How isnt this true? U tell me one car ford has made recently that is turbo, and light, and made an impact on the performance genre?  

Here is another point : They didn't want to, they were too busy making profits.

*Now if u want to continue this, do it through PM. Cos this is stupid, havent u got anything better to do?

Actually, i don't have anything better to do.

How about you...? Don't you have any school work...?

[Danzil]

This thread did start of with the tuning potential of the XR6T.

In that case there is only one fact that can put an end to all the bickering.

As stated by Mario (GTR700) www.exvitermini.com ... "Show me another production car engine that is capable of generating and sustaining over 500BHP per litre of displacement on gasoline."

He's proved the RB26dett of doing just that with his GTR700. Yes it may be the extremities when it comes to mods but it shows how (possibly) the two engines would stack up. As so far I haven't heard of a 4LT XR6T producing and sustaining over 2000BHP.

It’s been more than 10 years now since the GTR raped the Australian Touring Car Series; they're still trying to forget! Let the Ford boys have their day…it won't last long. Just wait the 2 and half years and we'll get our R35 GTR to silence the critics.. once again.

Fords may have the straight-line speed but we’ve got 4wd (not me I’ve got a gts-t, but one day …and we still own the track.

-Dan

[knore]

Those dynos mean nothing.

Everyone knows that stock GTR makes more than its stated 206kw.

-My god, i said way back in the thread that im not comparing the power figures to determine how 'advanced' they are. Check post 22 if youve misplaced your glasses

See that avatar of mine? Its japanese for Hayabusa, so i know a little bit about them

You say "Ford/holden didnt need to make a performance car, they were too busy making profits"

Once again, my god, thats exacly what i was saying buddy, They SHOULD be focusing more on performance... But they arent.. thats my point.

"Dont i have any school work?"

haha such an inferior pay out from such an inferior person

:slap:

[knore]

This thread did start of with the tuning potential of the XR6T.

In that case there is only one fact that can put an end to all the bickering.

As stated by Mario (GTR700) www.exvitermini.com ...  "Show me another production car engine that is capable of generating and sustaining over 500BHP per litre of displacement on gasoline."

He's proved the RB26dett of doing just that with his GTR700. Yes it may be the extremities when it comes to mods but it shows how (possibly) the two engines would stack up. As so far I haven't heard of a 4LT XR6T producing and sustaining over 2000BHP.

It’s been more than 10 years now since the GTR raped the Australian Touring Car Series; they're still trying to forget! Let the Ford boys have their day…it won't last long. Just wait the 2 and half years and we'll get our R35 GTR to silence the critics.. once again.

Fords may have the straight-line speed but we’ve got 4wd (not me I’ve got a gts-t, but one day …and we still own the track.

-Dan

Hooray! thats another one with a head on his shoulders

Nice info about mario there, didnt know that

[knore]

Why were those 2 top dynos only done to 6000rpm, GTR redline is 7500 isnt it

[Benno]

Ford and Holden don’t make performance cars. Why? Because there is no market. That’s why they are both profitable brands. They cater to the markets needs. The market is saturated with cheap performance cars (see WRX). Why bother trying to compete when they are market leaders in their own field? Local manufacturers don’t need to build performance cars to please a group of people that wouldn’t buy and couldn’t afford to buy them.

The performance range of both of them produce cars fast enough as it is. If they were to bring out an absolute monster, people would outrage over possible deaths/dangers etc. And it is still not financially viable. Holden’s HRT 427 had a purchase price of 200K, but was still not financially viable….and deposits were put down on all that were going to be made!

I still don’t understand how power/litre makes a motor more technologically advanced. It might be a factor, but it is not the whole comparison.

[Driver]

do u guys think holden might bring out anything to compete with the xr6 turbo?

[knore]

Ford and Holden don’t make performance cars. Why? Because there is no market. That’s why they are both profitable brands. They cater to the markets needs. The market is saturated with cheap performance cars (see WRX). Why bother trying to compete when they are market leaders in their own field? Local manufacturers don’t need to build performance cars to please a group of people that wouldn’t buy and couldn’t afford to buy them.

The performance range of both of them produce cars fast enough as it is. If they were to bring out an absolute monster, people would outrage over possible deaths/dangers etc. And it is still not financially viable. Holden’s HRT 427 had a purchase price of 200K, but was still not financially viable….and deposits were put down on all that were going to be made!

I still don’t understand how power/litre makes a motor more technologically advanced. It might be a factor, but it is not the whole comparison.

... What do u call HSV and FPV then? Ofcourse they make performance cars, im just saying they could do a better job at it.

No one would complain if they bought out a complete monster, because it would be few and far between thanks to the price. A car is only as safe as its driver.

Cheap performance cars? WRX? I dont know what u call cheap, but a WRX STI is like 60K and is right up there in the performance genre.

For the 3rd/4th time, i NEVER said power/litre makes a more more technoligically advanced. If you read way back to post 22, i state its more about WHEN it was released not how much power it made per litre or whatever.

Driver;

I doubt it, Holden and Ford only seem to be focused on making the cars they have now heavier and with bigger engines. The last project i heard holden to be doing was a AWD version of the CV8 Monaro. But like ive said already, at 1700KG+, why not spend that money in making it lighter, not awd.

Even if holden released a turbo, it would just be a turbo commodore. :throwup:

They wouldnt design a new car for it.

And so props to Nissan, They went bankrupt making the R32 GTR.

Now thats a company u can call the 'peoples' company. They spent so much time and money designing the best performance car for us, they almost went totally bankrupt.

And because of this, they have sold ridiculous amounts of skylines. The R34 GTRs first production line was completely sold before it even left the factory.

This is why me likey Nissan, and me dont likey Ford and Holden.

Atleast ford is breaking new ground with the XR6T. Hopefully it inspires something bigger in the future.

[Benno]

There definitely won’t be a turbo commodore for a long time. Cars are getting bigger. Not just local cars. Mid sized cars these days are family car size of the early 80’s. (New vectra is same size as early model commodore).

Nissan nearly went bankrupt producing the GTR? Why is that? Not economically viable. Large volume production lines producing limited run vehicles is financially inefficient. Nissan is a people’s company? What rubbish. Which car company isn’t?

How is ford breaking new ground? By putting a forced induction motor into their falcon? Holden have been doing it for years.

[benjiman74]

But Holden plonked their forced induction on a 1960's pushrod buick v6!

Ford have at least utilised overhead cams / 4 valve technology, an intercooler and their turbo allows plenty of headroom for more power.

[Benno]

"Ford have at least utilised overhead cams / 4 valve technology, an intercooler..."

Now that is a good response to the technologically advanced debate.

Nothing wrong with pushrods though....but that is for another time.

The new HFV6 holden is producing has twin turbo capability. Wont happen (if ever) here for a long time, but Alfa Romeo produced a twin turbo variant.

Now that motor is quite advacned.

[rsx84]

does any one know if ford made the new GT ute (you'd think not)with the turbo motor?? it just a bloke round the corner has either transplanted the xr6t motor into the GT shell or painted up the xr6t ute to look like the GT version?? i think hes pretty happy with it as he floggs the guts out of it

[knore]

I dont think so,

Your talking about the ute with stripes etc ? FPV Ute

[rsx84]

I dont think so,  

Your talking about the ute with stripes etc ? FPV Ute

thats the one, light blue with the pin striping