Forced Performance Hta Turbos

[34GeeTeeTee]

Hi Guys,

Due to the recent discussions in other threads in relation to the latest HTA results, Lithium and I decided it was time to create a new discussion thread as i do believe these will be a big part amongst the SAU community based on the results possible on the RB engine.

Forced Performance are normally associated with EVOs and STi's which results in them often being overlooked as an option for the general turbocharged world but they actually do a bunch of Garrett based upgrades for a variety of applications (not all are listed here):

http://store.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=FP&Category_Code=Turbo-FP

And

http://www.ringer-racing.com/category.sc?categoryId=180

A lot of these turbos have been around for years, and proven time and again to perform - it is a bit of a shame they aren't more known about in our area in the world. The HTA range came out in the late 2000s (before the Garrett GTX range) and as a general rule provided compressor wheels which made the equivalent GT units completely redundant, typically having physically smaller inducer dimensions (smaller trims tend to mean better response, and safer margain before surge) and the ability through design to flow over 10% better than the GT equivalent, without carrying the extra 25-30% mass the cast GT wheels have... so also great improvements to transient response.

Over the years they've been used on a variety of serious cars in single and twin form, and often FP/HTA technology don't get the credit for it as they will be referred to in articles or the workshops who have supplied kits using them as "custom Garrett" units - key examples for these are Porsche and R35 GTRs, where FP turbos are one of (if not THE) turbo to use on those cars.

They also supply an upgrade service which I am sure means they can built a custom version not listed on their site - which would mean there are the options of a HTA3071R, HTA3073R, HTA3076R, HTA3582R, HTA3586R, HTA3786R, HTA3794R, all the way up to the HTA4505 - so if anything there are actually more sensibly spaced options than currently available from Garrett themselves, and without the design compromises Garrett had to do in order to make them suit the OEM market - such as forfeiting compressor efficiency to be quiet, packaging reasons, and optimising low pressure ratios. This isn't to say the HTA turbos aren't only good at high pressure ratios, they are just more focussed on performance from 1.5-4 bar instead of .8-3 bar - generally speaking. End effect is they suit most of our purposes very well

Boost Logic R35 GTR - 8.9 @ 180mph on its first outing, still on low profile radial tyres (AMS downsized brakes and rims): http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/85461-boost-logic-89s-180mph/

And vid:

AWD Motorsport radial tyred/stock ECU EVO - 9.0 @ 160mph (it hit high 8s but the video is cr@p):

Eddie Bello's Texas Invitational winning Porsche from 2013 -

And plenty of time attack, circuit and rally cars have used them to great effect as well.

After researching this turbo in great detail it was decided the HTA3076 would best suit my car as the GT3037-56T compressor was maxed out. Initially i was skeptical about the turbo as it is hard to get your mind around a setup with similar dimensions being capabale of so much more, after numerous discussions the decision was made to test one out and the results were nothing short of amazing! The turbo not on provided more peak power and torque, but the response was dramatically different, on paper it looks impressive but once in the drivers seat, its a totally different beast! I will have all the results on both fuels (E70 and pump 98) and also varying boost levels to post shortly but for now i have a direct back to back full power comparison from a GT3076 vs a HTA3076 -

And the video provided by JEM of the dyno runs -

The HTA is certainly an impressive turbo and i think with the options of a HTA3073 & HTA3076 for RB25 they have nailed it! The old GT compressor had no answer for the newer HTA design.

I must say a big thanks to LITHIUM as without his help and data i would not have made the choice to choose the HTA turbo, and again another big thanks to Just Engine Management for the awesome tune! Adam Neish knows how to get the best out of any given setup

Discuss

[Lithium]

Discuss? I think we've done PLENTY of that Time to enjoy it.... and I'd like to place a booking for shotgun when I am over for WTAC in October

It's certainly a nice change from the GTX3076R which adds the power, but more lag - instead of less Bewilders me that the HTA3076 has been around so long and Garrett could bring out something that doesn't perform as well and have it look like it could become the new black.

[34GeeTeeTee]

Some images from web searches along the way, Thanks to Bimmerforums for one and the others are unknown -

[timmy_89]

Wow. Good write up

[34GeeTeeTee]

  On 29/05/2013 at 3:06 AM, timmy_89 said:

Wow. Good write up

Plenty more to come mate! This is just the start....... Well if LITHIUM has anything to do with it anyway

[CLNSKY]

Great write up.

More information for when i decide to upgrade my turbo in the future

[34GeeTeeTee]

  On 29/05/2013 at 3:20 AM, CLNSKY said:

Great write up.

More information for when i decide to upgrade my turbo in the future

Certainly keep these in mind if you want good overall power and response! YES you will pay more than other options but in my case the cost is justified!

[Roy]

Nice result. Be interesting to see if you can get it to hold 28psi through the top end. Any thoughts on why it doesnt hold the extra boost in the top end?

[34GeeTeeTee]

  On 29/05/2013 at 3:25 AM, Roy said:

Nice result. Be interesting to see if you can get it to hold 28psi through the top end. Any thoughts on why it doesnt hold the extra boost in the top end?

Hi Roy,

It was not meant to hold that pressure through the top end! Standard Headgasket and studs etc! That and i do believe the turbo is reaching its ceiling!

What was your initial impression of the HTA wheel you tried?

[Lithium]

  On 29/05/2013 at 3:25 AM, Roy said:

Nice result. Be interesting to see if you can get it to hold 28psi through the top end. Any thoughts on why it doesnt hold the extra boost in the top end?

It is already a pretty intense result for a smallish trim 76mm compressor attached to a GT30 hotside, to hold 28psi up top efficiently the way it is making power you would have be shooting for around 430 rwkw! I think if you were aiming for that power then I think it really would be time to start considering something GT35 based and a built motor :-)

[34GeeTeeTee]

  On 29/05/2013 at 3:35 AM, Lithium said:

It is already a pretty intense result for a smallish trim 76mm compressor attached to a GT30 hotside, to hold 28psi up top efficiently the way it is making power you would have be shooting for around 430 rwkw! I think if you were aiming for that power then I think it really would be time to start considering something GT35 based and a built motor :-)

Which is the reason the HTA3076 was chosen as its pushing the limits of the factory internals!

[SimonR32]

I really wanted to try a HTA3582R or HTA3586R on my GTR but about the only thing that stopped me was the lack of T4 divided housings to suit my manifold.

Trying to convince a few guys in Perth to try out some HTA options at the moment. Fingers crossed we can see some more results

[Lithium]

Yeah that has been a bit of a negative for Garrett based turbochargers for a while, however Garrett do proper T4 twin scroll exhaust housings for GT35 wheels now - so it should be quite doable A friend of mine has an HTA3586 with the ATP T4 housing in his new GTR and that is going to be a bit of a monster, too. Should be hitting the rollers soon with a new upgraded fuel system and E85 - I expect it will be fairly silly! Should be able to report results soon.

The same engine/turbo setup was previously in an R32 GTSt and not E85 but met a sticky end:

[34GeeTeeTee]

  On 29/05/2013 at 5:20 AM, SimonR32 said:

I really wanted to try a HTA3582R or HTA3586R on my GTR but about the only thing that stopped me was the lack of T4 divided housings to suit my manifold.

Trying to convince a few guys in Perth to try out some HTA options at the moment. Fingers crossed we can see some more results

Awesome! Well keep the thread updated as i can see some good things coming from these turbos!

Sky30 might be able to give us some feedback on his HTA.

[B-rice]

shit man, im having a really hard time with my undecisiveness so far i had three in mind but after reading here thats another to the list. If only i had money to test the all out. Great write up though man i have a lot of thinking to do.

[Tonba]

Nice of you guys to FINALLY join the HTA bandwagon!

[34GeeTeeTee]

  On 29/05/2013 at 5:40 AM, B-rice said:

shit man, im having a really hard time with my undecisiveness so far i had three in mind but after reading here thats another to the list. If only i had money to test the all out. Great write up though man i have a lot of thinking to do.

It really depends on what you want to do but if a recall correctly you wanted 400kw+? If so go the HTA3582.... Otherwise copy my setup and enjoy!

  On 29/05/2013 at 5:41 AM, Tonba said:

Nice of you guys to FINALLY join the HTA bandwagon!

Shuddup you! Get your HTA powered pig going so we can see where the Black maxes out!

[sky30]

I have done a swap from garrett gt3582 to FP hta3586 with no other mods or changes.

Two main things ive noticed are the fp turbo spools slightly faster/earlier and the fp turbo holds boost better when running 20+ psi.

The gt3582 would not hold more than 21psi on my engine

[SRS13]

Great write up and even better that you have results of your own to share. They are impressive.

Like above i looked into these but was limited bu the optioms. I'm on my phone otherwise would search myself but do they now come with the T4 divided options? Something for around 450rwk?

[34GeeTeeTee]

  On 29/05/2013 at 5:57 AM, SRS13 said:

Great write up and even better that you have results of your own to share. They are impressive.

Like above i looked into these but was limited bu the optioms. I'm on my phone otherwise would search myself but do they now come with the T4 divided options? Something for around 450rwk?

Not sure, on their site it says "other options" but no listing available! The power target will be reached easily enough and still be responsive i reckon

  On 29/05/2013 at 5:55 AM, sky30 said:

I have done a swap from garrett gt3582 to FP hta3586 with no other mods or changes.

Two main things ive noticed are the fp turbo spools slightly faster/earlier and the fp turbo holds boost better when running 20+ psi.

The gt3582 would not hold more than 21psi on my engine

That is awesome! I've noticed a BIG change in the way mine drives, its lively right through the rev range but i havent had too much seat time yet! Cant wait to get back in it and try high boost!