Forced Performance Hta Turbos

[timmy_89]

Yeah that has been a bit of a negative for Garrett based turbochargers for a while, however Garrett do proper T4 twin scroll exhaust housings for GT35 wheels now - so it should be quite doable A friend of mine has an HTA3586 with the ATP T4 housing in his new GTR and that is going to be a bit of a monster, too. Should be hitting the rollers soon with a new upgraded fuel system and E85 - I expect it will be fairly silly! Should be able to report results soon.

The same engine/turbo setup was previously in an R32 GTSt and not E85 but met a sticky end:

Ouch. This video looks like slow-mo almost.

Also, do you have a link to your build thread Lithium? I'm not sure if I've read it before or not.

[AngryRB]

ive no doubt the HTA is probably better than the GT, but how much better if you want to run say 20psi? the above graph shows that the HTA kicks ass if you max both turbos out and run 28psi on the HTA, but what about both running 20psi to make it a fair comparison, would the HTA still beat the GT?

[34GeeTeeTee]

ive no doubt the HTA is probably better than the GT, but how much better if you want to run say 20psi? the above graph shows that the HTA kicks ass if you max both turbos out and run 28psi on the HTA, but what about both running 20psi to make it a fair comparison, would the HTA still beat the GT?

From driving it on 20psi now, i can tell you its got a LOT more response not only on full boost but even just touching the throttle (Transient response i guess) and it is overall a better turbo!

I am waiting on the other PDF's to see what it looks like on paper man!

[Lithium]

Probably not, same hotside and no other changes in the setup. The GT made the power so clearly was able to flow the air to do it, so the odds are the only difference will be the HTA spools and responds better. There is the possibility the HTA may hold better power after peak is reached however. The only reason in this kind of comparison that one would make more than another is if the turbo can't supply the air that the engine wants.

So no more peak power, but in the real world a faster and nicer to drive car as that same power is more easily accessible - and done with less stress as it has much more in reserve ;-)

[34GeeTeeTee]

Probably not, same hotside and no other changes in the setup. The GT made the power so clearly wasn't maxed out, so the odds are the only difference will be the HTA spools and responds better. The only reason in this kind of comparison that one would make more than another is if the turbo can't supply the air that the engine wants

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2

Oh and the HTA is dead silent in operation, i know Mark wants the epic whistle so the GT is the better choice

[Lithium]

Also, do you have a link to your build thread Lithium? I'm not sure if I've read it before or not.

Nah, haven't done much with my own car in years. This is the closest to a build thread I have from way back when GT3076Rs weren't common, and nothing to do with these turbos - http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/189495-rb25det-with-a-real-82-ar-gt3076r/?hl=+gt3076r

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2

[Roy]

What was your initial impression of the HTA wheel you tried?

It was basically a 20G wheel (give or take)

Back to back with the 20G using a 12cm housing and TD06 turbine you would have been forgiven for thinking they were the same turbo when only running 16psi. It hinted at better things in that it seems to do it easier with less ignition and was fractionally more responsive with the same tune from the 20G. But tinkering was stopped as the 12cm housing is obviously hurting it as the T67 with 10cm housing was more responsive and there is something wrong with my engine when I screw 25psi into is doesnt really want to make much more power than 18psi...so suspect valve springs are a problem.

So with no valve spring concern and a 1cm housing I would have expected a similar result to you. With a full tune and ignition in its belly woudl havebeen a bit more punchy and responsive and made more power courtesy of being able to effeciently spin it a bit harder with a few more psi, say 26 or so psi

Hunting around desperately for a 10cm housing for it and going to put my Tomei valve springs in the engine ion about 8-10 weeks time. Then if the T67 can spin up decent power at 25psi then I will be happy to go back to the 73HTA and spin the bugger as hard as I can . But when capped at 16-18psi and 330rwkws no real point running the 73HTA with 12cm housing when I have other combos that suit the state of play better

[AngryRB]

Oh and the HTA is dead silent in operation, i know Mark wants the epic whistle so the GT is the better choice

yep , gotta love that crazy whistling..

Lithium- been watching your utube vids, would love to see you do a build, love the sound of that rb, cant wait to see Mats vids of the new HTA too, great to see some angry RB's

[Lithium]

I would love to do a build too, time and money are a challenge - and I get quite a bit of a speed fix playing with other peoples cars Will see how the next few months goes though, starting to get a bit restless and have accumulated a few ideas

[gotRICE?]

I would love to do a build too, time and money are a challenge - and I get quite a bit of a speed fix playing with other peoples cars Will see how the next few months goes though, starting to get a bit restless and have accumulated a few ideas

[MRHD66]

i wonder the difference performance differences between the GTX and HTA are

[Lithium]

As mentioned earlier in the thread, the GTX tend to spool at best the same as the equivalent GT - but really they usually are laggier. The HTA tend to respond better than the equivalent GT. Both tend to make ~10% more power, give or take. The GTX are often a little more aggressive flow wise than the equivalent HTA, but that would partly because they are bigger trim and generally larger compressors - which is also part of why they tend to be a bit laggier. So far the general consensus from people who have built cars using both combinations have preferred the HTA.

The HTAs (and GTX) have been used heaps on GTRs, so a bit of experience in that world - this thread should give a bit of an idea from some of the big names in R35 tuning: http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/79848-gtx3076-vs-hta3076both-has-63-ar/

[Tonba]

Hey guys, Here are a few cars running forced performance HTA turbos (all evos... I know... But still)

-Nik Kalis' Evo 9 which won WTAC Clubsprint 2010 using a HTA73 (FP Green), and won 2011 Open Class using a HTA82 (FP Black)
-Jason Naidoo Evo 8 which has made 360kW using a HTA76 (FR Red) and runs in the 1.36 sec range at eastern creek on semi-slicks

-Dan Farquhar Evo 8 which was runner up in WTAC Clubsprint Class 2012 using a HTA76R (FP Red) and ran a 1.40 at eastern creek on street tyres
-Noah Tupai Evo 9 which has run 500kW @ all fours using a HTA86 (HTA3586R with 1.15 T4 Rear Housing)
-VSport Evo 10 ran a HTA82 (FP Black) at WTAC 2012 and ran a 1.34 in Open Class
-Powertune's "Snowflake" Evo 9 has run 400kW @ all fours using a HTA76 (FP Red) and also run 10.4sec quarter mile

There are many many more mental results like these out there. The fact is, these turbochargers are far better then the GTX turbos from garrett, and light years away from the dinosaur GT series of turbo..

Please note, that the FP Green/Red/Black series of turbo is a complete bolt-on solution for Evo. They are a modified stock frame turbo, and for them to punch-out mental power (400kW+), be responsive and stealthy (can be bolted to stock manifold, etc) is a true testiment to Forced performance and thier HTA line of turbos.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Tonba

[GTScotT]

The fact is, these turbochargers are far better then the GTX turbos from garrett, and light years away from the dinosaur GT series of turbo..

Please note, that the FP Green/Red/Black series of turbo is a complete bolt-on solution for Evo.

Just to chime in with some semi-opinionated facts lol

The GT aren't really redundant in light of a GTX, so I wouldn't go so far as to call them dinosaurs yet.. The GTX seem to fit neatly between the GT range from 71-76-82 in terms of adding power and response. You pick up some of the power from the next model range and a little bit of the lag also. For someone wanting close to 76R power I think the GTX71 is a good option when chasing a little more response (in more ways than just boost at RPM).

Furthermore, just to clarify that the rainbow FP items are not like for like with the Garrett based variants you are naming. IE an FP Red vs a 76 HTA, the Red has their custom 65mm turbine while the 3076 HTA is a GT30 60mm turbine. They do share the same compressor though which is why it has a '76 HTA' designation.

I am more than confident that you are already aware of the above, but I thought I would clarify for the vast majority who will read this thread in the years to come.

[Tonba]

Just to chime in with some semi-opinionated facts lol

The GT aren't really redundant in light of a GTX, so I wouldn't go so far as to call them dinosaurs yet.. The GTX seem to fit neatly between the GT range from 71-76-82 in terms of adding power and response. You pick up some of the power from the next model range and a little bit of the lag also. For someone wanting close to 76R power I think the GTX71 is a good option when chasing a little more response (in more ways than just boost at RPM).

Furthermore, just to clarify that the rainbow FP items are not like for like with the Garrett based variants you are naming. IE an FP Red vs a 76 HTA, the Red has their custom 65mm turbine while the 3076 HTA is a GT30 60mm turbine. They do share the same compressor though which is why it has a '76 HTA' designation.

I am more than confident that you are already aware of the above, but I thought I would clarify for the vast majority who will read this thread in the years to come.

Its actually a 67mm turbine wheel. Designed in-house by forced performance.

Now I do realise that in a traditional sence, a larger turbine wheel means more power, but you need to also understand the turbine housing restrictions. It is a 10.5cm twin scroll rear housing with internal wastegate. Anyone who knows twin-scroll applications will understand how restrictive it is...

example a T3 0.82 A/R single scroll housing flows similar to a T4 1.15 Twin Scroll Housing. THAT is how restrictive the divider makes it.

The FP reds have a 10.5cm twin scroll housing. If you convert that to A/R, it works out to be similar to a 0.77 A/R rear housing. Now you cant tell me that combined with a internal wastegate, it is going to flow well... The fact is that it is so restrictive on the turbine side, but can still punch out 350-400kW on a four wheel drive car.. is nothing short of amazing.

Forced performance REALLY know how to build turbochargers, and thier new (okay, they are not that new.. about 4 years old) HTA line of compressor wheels are truely amazing.

I stand by my original statement, and say the GT line of turbos are dinosaurs. Just like the Mitsubishi turbochargers (trust / greddy) were made redundant 4-5 years ago. The GTX are good, but I just think that the HTA wheels from forced performance are superior.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Tonba

[AngryRB]

From what ive seen, the twin scroll GT3076 with 0.82A/R will hit 340kws ( ownliberts) compared to Matts old GT3076 single scroll making 360kw

that would suggest the 0.82TS is equal to about a 0.70 single scroll T3?? Im not sure if the TS was even maxed out either..

Edited May 30, 2013 by AngryRBGTX

[GTScotT]

Everything has its place. I for one cannot afford to buy a HTA. In the end I see the turbo as a longer term consumable and a product you are likely to change as requirements do, which is why I cant justify the 2k+ it would cost landed. A GT can be had for about half the price, so while they are age old and clearly inferior in performance people will still flock to them (just like the Kando items everyone knows so well nowadays).

Re the 65 or 67mm thing, they have actually chopped and changed a lot over the years. You are correct they are originally a 67mm wheel but they do crop them back to 65 in some of the models (65mm in the green, full size 67 in the red).

I'm not attacking you, I'm just clarifying the two lines are not directly comparable as people on this forum will be buying Garrett based items rather than a rainbow named variants.

[SimonR32]

I stand by my original statement, and say the GT line of turbos are dinosaurs. Just like the Mitsubishi turbochargers (trust / greddy) were made redundant 4-5 years ago. The GTX are good, but I just think that the HTA wheels from forced performance are superior.

Statements like that completely kill any credibility you have/had.

[wolverine]

I would choose my dinosaur over a GTX variant.

Who did the flow tests on the T3 0.82 single vs T4 TS 1.15?

[scotty nm35]

I agree with GTscotT to an extent, as I haven't seen a one run balls out GTX result yet on high boost with cams and a manifold.

Owenliberts result was exceptional for a GT imo, I spent a lit of time designing the dump and merge on that setup though, and I am sure it had more left in it, a GTX version would be interesting to say the least.