Forced Performance Hta Turbos

[34GeeTeeTee]

I find it a bit confusing when people say that the dyno is different to how it behaves on the street, my experience with the GTX was that it was very similar to its dyno graph, I havnt had the TS GT3076 on a dyno yet but so far the STREET feel is not night and day compared with the GTX, so the change from GTX to GT compressor doesn't seem to back up what was said about response in my case... seems to me that all these turbo's have the same size hot side, a 60mm turbine that can only speed up so fast and the motor itself doesn't seem to be able to ingest and flow the gas quick enough when the revs are under 4000rpm, maybe other peoples setup is making the difference... In future id be trying the Hypergear route..

Its a shame you didnt get the results you were looking for, but i think without finishing the job properly with the tune etc your setup left a lot out...

My car is totally different... In saying that from what i have seen online the GTX wasnt hugely impressive in terms of response so maybe it was a bad comparison.

If you had felt my car before and after you would know what i mean! Well i know i did but i knew the car damn well i guess.

Owen had really epic response on his TS GT setup so i think there is still way more in yours!

[sky30]

I have seen a guy go from gt35 to gtx35 and resopnse was slightly worse, which suggests the hta compressors are better design than the multi blade gtx for response.

Edited August 13, 2013 by sky30

[34GeeTeeTee]

Not the first time that has been said

[Lithium]

I find it a bit confusing when people say that the dyno is different to how it behaves on the street, my experience with the GTX was that it was very similar to its dyno graph, I havnt had the TS GT3076 on a dyno yet but so far the STREET feel is not night and day compared with the GTX, so the change from GTX to GT compressor doesn't seem to back up what was said about response in my case... seems to me that all these turbo's have the same size hot side, a 60mm turbine that can only speed up so fast and the motor itself doesn't seem to be able to ingest and flow the gas quick enough when the revs are under 4000rpm, maybe other peoples setups are making the difference... In future id be trying the Hypergear route..

We discussed you going from a GTX to a GT back in March - though you were talking about going .63 open T3 at the time:

AngryRB: 1) Do you think this makes sense to switch to a GT3076 0.63?

2) Will the transient response be worth this switch?

Lith: 1) To me, no - it sounds like a lot of effort and going to the GT wheel result in a backwards evolution, you have a more modern turbo now that makes more power for the spool trade off. How much power are you after? Is the current level pretty much on target?

2) Again, I doubt it - the transient response difference is likely (never actually driven a GTX3076R myself mind you) to be pretty similiar, all things being equal. The biggest difference will be the .63 vs .82 housing I reckon, and when I went from .63 to .82 I didn't really lose much transient response at all - really the main difference in lag was under 3500rpm... once the turbo was spinning it was much of a muchness.

I also went on to mention that I thought the likes of an HTA3073 would be more rewarding. So basically I am not surprised at all that you haven't had a day and night difference in performance, I expect it WILL improve with a tune but still nothing incredible.

One of the frustrating things about forums which have seriously dropped my enthusiasm for trying to help out is when people ask for help on deciding things, just listen to the stuff which validates what they are intending on doing anyway, then do it and then blame the "lack of success" on the wrong thing when they've already been told more or less what to expect when heading down certain paths. I don't agree at all with your hypothesis, and the only reason you should be venting your disappointment in this thread should be that you are disappointed that you didn't go for an HTA instead of going to an old cast Garrett GT compressor wheel.

[methz]

pretty sure the gtx3582r has a lot bigger comp wheel then your standard gt3582r? which might be why its laggier, not 2 mention its rated at a higher hp over the gt3582r...cant expect to go bigger without giving up rpm

[34GeeTeeTee]

pretty sure the gtx3582r has a lot bigger comp wheel then your standard gt3582r? which might be why its laggier, not 2 mention its rated at a higher hp over the gt3582r...cant expect to go bigger without giving up rpm

Actually you can... If you read back you will see Sky30 went to a bigger HTA model and still improved response...

[sky30]

pretty sure the gtx3582r has a lot bigger comp wheel then your standard gt3582r? which might be why its laggier, not 2 mention its rated at a higher hp over the gt3582r...cant expect to go bigger without giving up rpm

The gtx 35 wheel is only .5mm larger exducer and 1mm larger inducer over the gt35. Where as the hta wheel is 4mm larger exducer, and is still more responsive than the gt wheel.

[methz]

oh ok my bad, looks so much larger haha. sounds good though, hta all the way

[Lithium]

pretty sure the gtx3582r has a lot bigger comp wheel then your standard gt3582r? which might be why its laggier, not 2 mention its rated at a higher hp over the gt3582r...cant expect to go bigger without giving up rpm

Yep, which is why I prefer the HTA turbos - they tend to go the other way. Compare some of these sizes (rounded to the nearest whole so I don't have to remember specifics):

3076:

HTA - 55mm/76mm

GT - 57mm/76mm

GTX - 58mm/77mm

3582:

HTA - 59mm/82mm

GT - 61mm/82mm

GTX - 63mm/83mm

HTA86 - 62mm/86mm

So before you even get into the more aggressively focussed on outright performance than the GT/GTX which are intended for industrial use that the HTA wheels have, you have smaller/lighter wheels which can make more power than the GT equivalents.

The gtx 35 wheel is only .5mm larger exducer and 1mm larger inducer over the gt35. Where as the hta wheel is 4mm larger exducer, and is still more responsive than the gt wheel.

As much as I love the HTA turbos, that's surprising to me - I know people who have gone GT3582R to HTA3586 and lost a bit of low down (though once up on threshold the response has been good), though that has been on 2litre engines to be fair and the 3litre probably has enough natural torque for that to not be a noticeable issue.

The HTA3586 is also a weapon of a thing, though - so the fact it even comes into this conversation says a lot!

[sky30]

Yea i was very suprised on my first drive, car definately starts building boost slightly earlier, but the biggest difference is how fast boost gets from 5 psi to 20 psi, the old gt would build to 5 psi then slowly to 10psi before it would start spoeding up to 20, where as the hta just straight to 20psi much faster.

[sky30]

Yea i was very suprised on my first drive, car definately starts building boost slightly earlier, but the biggest difference is how fast boost gets from 5 psi to 20 psi, the old gt would build to 5 psi then slowly to 10psi before it would start spoeding up to 20, where as the hta just straight to 20psi much faster.

[B-rice]

Which HTA do you have btw.

[sky30]

Hta 3586

[AngryRB]

its interesting how theres only 2mm difference between HTA and GT versions of the 3076, that's less than 5% which looking at the dyno graph it looks like 200rpm quicker on the boost curve which is 5% at 4000rpm, is this a coincidence?

Anyone have the weights of the various comp wheels?

[Lithium]

its interesting how theres only 2mm difference between HTA and GT versions of the 3076, that's less than 5% which looking at the dyno graph it looks like 200rpm quicker on the boost curve which is 5% at 4000rpm, is this a coincidence?

Anyone have the weights of the various comp wheels?

I know someone measured an HTA vs GT 3582R and there was a difference in the realms of 93g (HTA) vs 120g (GT) from memory? Something like that.

No doubt some coincidence and some connection - hard to say how much, bare in mind it still uses the same shaft and turbine wheel. Also remember that the compressor wheel design is different, the HTA compressor has quite a lot less meat on it for the size - so it means both less weight and also more airflow through it.

[34GeeTeeTee]

I know someone measured an HTA vs GT 3582R and there was a difference in the realms of 93g (HTA) vs 120g (GT) from memory? Something like that.

No doubt some coincidence and some connection - hard to say how much, bare in mind it still uses the same shaft and turbine wheel. Also remember that the compressor wheel design is different, the HTA compressor has quite a lot less meat on it for the size - so it means both less weight and also more airflow through it.

Side by side that is VERY noticable.... The GT blades are so thick and old school looking

[AngryRB]

dam you HTA people .. lol but yeah that makes sense..

Edited August 15, 2013 by AngryRB

[34GeeTeeTee]

So guys, for those that have read this from the start.... This thread has been lacking the vital info on my car in terms of boost levels and plots to show just how good this HTA turbo is.... On the weekend i was booked in with DVS JEZ for some power runs to do some checks but by fluke the car ended up back on JEM's dyno due to an issue with it while down there for a photoshoot.

I was nothing but impressed when i saw the HTA does NOT need big boost to make the power and is in fact killing the GT on the same boost levels.

My low boost is still set around 20-18psi and has gone from 348rwkw up to 368rwkw

My high boost is now set around 25-23psi and has gone from 362rwkw up to 388rwkw (I think we were touching 24-25psi on the GT but it was bleeding to 22ish).

The orginal graph i posted showed the hero run of 28-24psi but when overlayed with the normal 25-23psi run there is no difference up top, just a stronger mid range which is to be expected given the few extra PSI.

I have posted some graphs in my build thread and will have more coming soon!

So, i do believe there were quite a few in the thread that were assuming boost was the reason for the power increase but this proves otherwise.

Also, driving the car more since my last post, the thing is just amazing under all conditions... Its got SO much grunt when on the throttle yet its still got plenty putting around at low revs.

I cannot say how much i love this combo!

[Lithium]

Nice man - jealous as! Cheers for the updates too, nice to know how these things come out in practice

[Joshbigt62r]

GOD DAMMN IT MATT.

Stop making me jealous. Haha

That's awesome to prove the non believes on just how awesome these FP hta turbos are. I'm still saving for my 6booba and hta 3073 iss the plan at the moment.

I wonder what the difference would be between there 76 and 73.? Only want to really try the 73 to be different.

Josh.