Forced Performance Hta Turbos

[B-rice]

Dyno of my old HTA GT3586R 0.85 set-up, to save on searching through the RB30 dyno results thread.

Good stuff, I had 500kw as a target but I'm not fixated on it. It looks quite responsive too. Was that turbo maxed out?

[whatsisname]

Looks a little laggier than I expected but I bet it felt a shitload faster in the real world when under load (dyno doesn't give real world load experience)

It produced enough torque to start spinning the 265 A050s at about 2500rpm. It was very responsive on the road.

[whatsisname]

 

Good stuff, I had 500kw as a target but I'm not fixated on it. It looks quite responsive too. Was that turbo maxed out?

 

The 0.85 rear housing was maxed out. Probably a bit more in it with the larger 1.03, 1.06 rear - with the obvious trade off in response.

 

Response was very impressive.

 

325Nm at 2800

600ish at 3500

850ish at 4200

 

Genuine torque figures not derived torque.

[LaurelPWR]

It produced enough torque to start spinning the 265 A050s at about 2500rpm. It was very responsive on the road.

Yessir that is a small mountain of torque [emoji1377] such sticky tyres too [emoji1377][emoji1377][emoji1377]

[Scott Black]

 
Genuine torque figures not derived torque.

Why don't you like derived torque?
Have you read this http://www.mainlineauto.com.au/images/downloads/DYNO_TORQUE_FIGURES_-_THE_TRUTH.pdf
On my dyno I find derived torque gives me a much more comparable readings between setups.

[whatsisname]

I don't dislike derived torque as such. My comment was aimed at clearing up any potential confusion from people seeing the torque figures I stated and thinking they're not very impressive for the set-up (RB30 HTA GT3586 etc)

 

The dyno I use gives torque figures that compare to the original torque ratings from factory. So 295Nm from a standard R33 GTS25t vs 860Nm from my RB30DET vs. 628Nm from the new HSV GTS-R W1

 

My old built RB25DET produced 366kW at the wheels on a Mainline dyno and 1023Nm, which doesn't relate to the original factory figure of 295Nm in any way, shape or form. Clearly it was not making 1023Nm vs. 295Nm of the standard engine. It probably had about 550-600Nm.

Obviously if one sticks to the same dyno, Mainline in this case, then at least each subsequent dyno run after the baseline is directly comparable and as long as the torque figure increases across the bulk of the useable RPM range all is good.

 

Yes I have read the Mainline dyno article.

 

 

[Scott Black]

That's pretty much what I was questioning as Derived torque on mine is the one that generally gives the most realistic and lowest numbers. Just loaded a run up now, 165rwkw rb25 making 256nm derived torque, 418nm torque and 3842 motive force with derived torque being the only one based of engine speed instead of roller speed.

[whatsisname]

The interesting thing is that neither of those torque figures seem to match the factory quoted peak torque figure of 295Nm + a modest increase given the obvious increase in power above standard.

A standard R33 GTS25t 5sp manual RB25DET produces say roughly 130-140ish kW at the wheels on a roller dyno, based on my experience. So that's a mild increase of 25-35kW. The 256Nm reading is well down on the factory claim and even more so for a 25-35kW increase. The opposite seems likely with the 418Nm figure. It is quite high at 123Nm increase, which doesn't seem to correlate with the mild 25-35kW increase. In short, neither torque reading seems to line up with a mildly modified RB25DET.

 

Then again, perhaps a 25-35kW gain does correlate to a 123Nm gain. I know my Golf GTI Pirelli produced 212kW at the wheels and 422Nm on a Mainline roller dyno. The quoted power/torque for APR Stage 2+ was 250kW and about 450Nm. Pretty close to the figures recorded on the dyno when taking drive train loss into account.

 

I guess at the end of the day the actual figure is less important than the before and after results.

 

 

 

 

 

[admS15]

You've got to take torque figures from a dyno with a grain of salt (when they are unrealistically high 300rwkw and 1000nm, yeah nah). Hub dynos seem to be fairly accurate with torque readings though.The method i use to check an engines real torque output from a dyno graph is:

Convert the figures to hp and foot pounds, power and torque will then be equal at exactly 5252 rpm. I then use the shape of the torque curve on the graph to determine where max torque is and then i can estimate up or down based on which way the curve goes, then convert back from ft-lbs to nm. For example, if an engine makes 350hp at 5252rpm, then it makes 350 ft-lbs at 5252 also. If peak torque was at 4900rpm, you estimate by how much higher the line is on the graph and you may come to a figure of say 370 ft-lbs. Convert that to nm and there is your real figure. Obviously you wont get an exact number but will be pretty damn close to the real figure. You also need the graph you're working from to be in rpm, for this reason it shits me when graphs are in road speed.

[Lithium]

Realistically if there is no accurate RPM configuration set up on the dyno software then there is no reasonable way of establishing a torque figure which is representative of what the engine is actually making - the torque that the dyno reads, particularly a rolling road dyno... has everything to do with wheel vs roller speed and then is further affected by transmission gearing.  The only way you can scale it sensibly really is by using the final power figures and calculating torque from the actual engine rpm.

[Scott Black]

That is exactly what derived rpm on a mainline dyno does and what it was designed for . And it's the only one that crossed hp and lbft at 5252, yet to be accurate needs either rpm pickup, ecu or obd comms enabled to get a good rpm signal. There derived rpm option is a joke for torque readings as to many factors induce slip

[shnaped_second]

On 5/18/2017 at 4:45 PM, LaurelPWR said:

Did you wind it up man? Got a dyno for the full balls run?

Hey mate sorry dont come in here much anymore, haven't done anything with the car yet still sitting here had a few things come up, had a new born last week so sort of on the back burner atm

[34GeeTeeTee]

My whole FP HTA setup is up for sale! Figured here was probably a good spot to mention it as all the results and info can be found on Page 1.

Basically everything on the hotside i used to make the 390kw is included as i have upgraded the lot.

Turbo, manifold, gate. dump, fittings and lines, full exhaust, intake pipe and filter, BOV and cooler pipe etc etc

Turbo has just had new bearings and seals so is AS NEW, just had $680 spent on it (Was quoted $880 through GCG for the same repair).

Whole setup is around $3k which is cheap for what you get! PM me if interested!

[Adz2332]

how much would a HTA3076r turbo be worth? little use, just sat on my track car for the last few years. no shaft play etc

[LaurelPWR]

6 hours ago, Adz2332 said:

how much would a HTA3076r turbo be worth? little use, just sat on my track car for the last few years. no shaft play etc

Specs on your setup man?

[Adz2332]

12 hours ago, LaurelPWR said:

Specs on your setup man?

im going to do a turbo 6Ltre

so going to eventually sell my Rb25 stuff. just have to get around to it

Link G4 ecu, 6boost top mount, hta3076r, 1000cc id injectors, plazamanan Plenum, yellow jacket coils, areo flow fuel rail, trial wastegate, HKS bov, 25 engine and box,  etc etc

Roughly know what most of the other things go for, unsure on the turbo

[LaurelPWR]

On 10/06/2020 at 9:29 AM, Adz2332 said:

im going to do a turbo 6Ltre

so going to eventually sell my Rb25 stuff. just have to get around to it

Link G4 ecu, 6boost top mount, hta3076r, 1000cc id injectors, plazamanan Plenum, yellow jacket coils, areo flow fuel rail, trial wastegate, HKS bov, 25 engine and box,  etc etc

Roughly know what most of the other things go for, unsure on the turbo

Have you got a graph for the hta3076 on the RB25? Very interested to see as I have one going on an RB25 at the moment but I have a true twin scroll twin gate setup and oversized itb’s etc so a bit different...

[Mick_o]

1 hour ago, LaurelPWR said:

Have you got a graph for the hta3076 on the RB25? Very interested to see as I have one going on an RB25 at the moment but I have a true twin scroll twin gate setup and oversized itb’s etc so a bit different...

So to give you a left of centre answer to this question.... I have driven a customers FP red (76mm compressor) journal bearing Evo 8 with a stock block which made 360kwatw rolling the power on in 2nd gear she was very urgent by around 3700/3800 rpm and obviously less and less in 3rd and 4th gear. 

So I think you're going to be very much the same if you have VCT etc as a 4G is probably similar/better than RB's for bringing turbos on song. 

[Adz2332]

Sure do.

What did you pay for your turbo?

 

Car made around 390kws, was pretty responsive to. Plenty of fun!

[LaurelPWR]

On 12/06/2020 at 7:07 PM, Mick_o said:

So to give you a left of centre answer to this question.... I have driven a customers FP red (76mm compressor) journal bearing Evo 8 with a stock block which made 360kwatw rolling the power on in 2nd gear she was very urgent by around 3700/3800 rpm and obviously less and less in 3rd and 4th gear. 

So I think you're going to be very much the same if you have VCT etc as a 4G is probably similar/better than RB's for bringing turbos on song. 

For sure man, I’ve extensively read and researched the Evo forums and practically everywhere hta30 over the years it’s taken me to get my setup slowly together hahah so yeah I’m expecting something very responsive. I’m hoping to get close to 550whp with 30psi and full boost at or before 4krpm as I have a few other supporting mods that are overkill for a turbo this size to help me get there.

Edited June 15, 2020 by LaurelPWR