Forced Performance Hta Turbos

[vkadam]

Just a quick question for those in the know.

Would there by any detriment to the performance of these turbos (specifically HTA 3076) if you ran a different rear housing such as a Kinugawa? The Tial rear housings are about $600. Is there a difference in performance between these and the cheaper alternatives? What are the differences?

[Adz2332]

HTA3586 .85 vs hta3076r .82

any one have a direct comparison on the 2 plz

[LaurelPWR]

Thread dredge.... 

Do fp still make the hta3076 or an equivalent/newer version with a different name?

[Lithium]

On 7/17/2016 at 2:32 PM, LaurelPWR said:

Thread dredge.... 

Do fp still make the hta3076 or an equivalent/newer version with a different name?

FP "grew" a new brand and turbo line called "Xona Rotor" which I can't attest to the reliability or performance of due to not knowing anyone running them BUT they are based on the normal FP HTA/HTZ compressors etc so no doubt good performance potential there.  The HTA3076 equivalent would be the XR61-56, which basically has a HTZ3076 compressor wheel: http://www.xonarotor.com/products/xrturbochargers/164-xr6156

Looks like FP themselves have phased out the Garrett based GT3076R in favour of pushing the Xona line HOWEVER Owen Developments are partners with FP and use a lot of their tech, and sell a lot of the older combos as well as some interesting combinations of their own but no doubt with twists and a bit more cost.  Here's their HTA3076: http://www.owendevelopments.co.uk/product/404/Owen_Developments_ODGT3076HTA/

 

 

[LaurelPWR]

FP "grew" a new brand and turbo line called "Xona Rotor" which I can't attest to the reliability or performance of due to not knowing anyone running them BUT they are based on the normal FP HTA/HTZ compressors etc so no doubt good performance potential there.  The HTA3076 equivalent would be the XR61-56, which basically has a HTZ3076 compressor wheel: http://www.xonarotor.com/products/xrturbochargers/164-xr6156

Looks like FP themselves have phased out the Garrett based GT3076R in favour of pushing the Xona line HOWEVER Owen Developments are partners with FP and use a lot of their tech, and sell a lot of the older combos as well as some interesting combinations of their own but no doubt with twists and a bit more cost.  Here's their HTA3076: http://www.owendevelopments.co.uk/product/404/Owen_Developments_ODGT3076HTA/

 

 

Thanks for the reply man (:
Yeah I looked into the Xona series since my previous post and they look like a good thing on paper! and by doing away with and plastics in the chra using all metal/steel bearing casings etc. I would assume it would have superior reliability over the older hta variants

[shnaped_second]

Old thread but here is a super 94 on my 2630 build, only run in tune thats why its at 8psi. Not as laggy as i first thought 

[LaurelPWR]

On 2 September 2016 at 6:39 PM, shnaped_second said:

Old thread but here is a super 94 on my 2630 build, only run in tune thats why its at 8psi. Not as laggy as i first thought 

Did you wind it up man? Got a dyno for the full balls run?

[B-rice]

I'm torn between HTA3582 BorgWarner 8374 and PT6262. 25/30 built looking for 450-500kws. Has anyone got a compressor map for the HTA3582?

[LaurelPWR]

If you want 500kw I would be looking at a 3586 unless you want to run high boost with a 3582.... What engine is it goin on and what fuel?

[B-rice]

Did you wind it up man? Got a dyno for the full balls run?

Hi Guys,
Due to the recent discussions in other threads in relation to the latest HTA results, Lithium and I decided it was time to create a new discussion thread as i do believe these will be a big part amongst the SAU community based on the results possible on the RB engine.
Forced Performance are normally associated with EVOs and STi's which results in them often being overlooked as an option for the general turbocharged world but they actually do a bunch of Garrett based upgrades for a variety of applications (not all are listed here):
http://store.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=FP&Category_Code=Turbo-FPAndhttp://www.ringer-racing.com/category.sc?categoryId=180 A lot of these turbos have been around for years, and proven time and again to perform - it is a bit of a shame they aren't more known about in our area in the world. The HTA range came out in the late 2000s (before the Garrett GTX range) and as a general rule provided compressor wheels which made the equivalent GT units completely redundant, typically having physically smaller inducer dimensions (smaller trims tend to mean better response, and safer margain before surge) and the ability through design to flow over 10% better than the GT equivalent, without carrying the extra 25-30% mass the cast GT wheels have... so also great improvements to transient response. Over the years they've been used on a variety of serious cars in single and twin form, and often FP/HTA technology don't get the credit for it as they will be referred to in articles or the workshops who have supplied kits using them as "custom Garrett" units - key examples for these are Porsche and R35 GTRs, where FP turbos are one of (if not THE) turbo to use on those cars. They also supply an upgrade service which I am sure means they can built a custom version not listed on their site - which would mean there are the options of a HTA3071R, HTA3073R, HTA3076R, HTA3582R, HTA3586R, HTA3786R, HTA3794R, all the way up to the HTA4505 - so if anything there are actually more sensibly spaced options than currently available from Garrett themselves, and without the design compromises Garrett had to do in order to make them suit the OEM market - such as forfeiting compressor efficiency to be quiet, packaging reasons, and optimising low pressure ratios. This isn't to say the HTA turbos aren't only good at high pressure ratios, they are just more focussed on performance from 1.5-4 bar instead of .8-3 bar - generally speaking. End effect is they suit most of our purposes very well [emoji4] Boost Logic R35 GTR - 8.9 @ 180mph on its first outing, still on low profile radial tyres (AMS downsized brakes and rims): http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/85461-boost-logic-89s-180mph/And vid: [/url] AWD Motorsport radial tyred/stock ECU EVO - 9.0 @ 160mph (it hit high 8s but the video is cr@p): Eddie Bello's Texas Invitational winning Porsche from 2013 - And plenty of time attack, circuit and rally cars have used them to great effect as well. After researching this turbo in great detail it was decided the HTA3076 would best suit my car as the GT3037-56T compressor was maxed out. Initially i was skeptical about the turbo as it is hard to get your mind around a setup with similar dimensions being capabale of so much more, after numerous discussions the decision was made to test one out and the results were nothing short of amazing! The turbo not on provided more peak power and torque, but the response was dramatically different, on paper it looks impressive but once in the drivers seat, its a totally different beast! I will have all the results on both fuels (E70 and pump 98) and also varying boost levels to post shortly but for now i have a direct back to back full power comparison from a GT3076 vs a HTA3076 - And the video provided by JEM of the dyno runs - The HTA is certainly an impressive turbo and i think with the options of a HTA3073 & HTA3076 for RB25 they have nailed it! The old GT compressor had no answer for the newer HTA design. I must say a big thanks to LITHIUM as without his help and data i would not have made the choice to choose the HTA turbo, and again another big thanks to Just Engine Management for the awesome tune! Adam Neish knows how to get the best out of any given setup Discuss [emoji6]

If you want 500kw I would be looking at a 3586 unless you want to run high boost with a 3582.... What engine is it goin on and what fuel?

RB25/30 Neo. E85 or Pump.

[LaurelPWR]

Yeah sweet dude I would be looking at a 3586 or even an 3794 with a 3l bottom end and the awesome flowing Neo head you'll still have excellent spoil response and if you go the HTA37 you'll hit your 500wkw goal easily asn have headroom for more

 

[Lithium]

8 hours ago, B-rice said:

I'm torn between HTA3582 BorgWarner 8374 and PT6262. 25/30 built looking for 450-500kws. Has anyone got a compressor map for the HTA3582?

There are no compressor maps for the FP or Precision turbos.  I've lost a fair bit of love for FP over time, I know a few people who have been a bit burned by their "out of the USA" customer service - though their compressor wheels are pretty sweet.   

In saying that, the Garrett GTX3582R is a really good thing... even while I had more love for FP I'd have to say that the HTA3586 has no answer to the GTX3582R which matches or betters it in both flow and response.  The GTX3582R is a really good thing, and the Gen2 GTX3582R is even better again if more flow for a bit less response.  I'd not bother with the PT6262, personally but the EFR8374 is still from my experience so far a league above all of the above.

All comes down to what you want so spend, what manifolding etc you will be doing.  If you want single scroll then I'd be going the GTX3582R.  I've you're going to spend the extra to get the best then I'd go EFR.
 

[LaurelPWR]

There are no compressor maps for the FP or Precision turbos.  I've lost a fair bit of love for FP over time, I know a few people who have been a bit burned by their "out of the USA" customer service - though their compressor wheels are pretty sweet.   

In saying that, the Garrett GTX3582R is a really good thing... even while I had more love for FP I'd have to say that the HTA3586 has no answer to the GTX3582R which matches or betters it in both flow and response.  The GTX3582R is a really good thing, and the Gen2 GTX3582R is even better again if more flow for a bit less response.  I'd not bother with the PT6262, personally but the EFR8374 is still from my experience so far a league above all of the above.

All comes down to what you want so spend, what manifolding etc you will be doing.  If you want single scroll then I'd be going the GTX3582R.  I've you're going to spend the extra to get the best then I'd go EFR.

 

 

 

I went and bought a hta3076 at the end of last year almost purely based on yours and Wootens info and success with it ......hahah...... [emoji57]

Is your lost love only because of their shitty customer service or has there been faulty products or something else?

also, you have pm.

[Lithium]

52 minutes ago, LaurelPWR said:

I went and bought a hta3076 at the end of last year almost purely based on yours and Wootens info and success with it ......hahah......

Is your lost love only because of their shitty customer service or has there been faulty products or something else?

also, you have pm.

Mainly customer service, a little dubious of their custom cores as a lot of people had issues with EVO boltons becoming smokey (not a issue for you) and I'd still favour an HTA/HTZ3076 over the likes of a GTX3076R/PT5558 every time.  Will check PM when I have another bit of time spare.

[B-rice]

I was referring to the Borg Warner Airwecks S300 series or the new s320.They cheaper than the EFR series but there is a huge turbine to comp selection.

Using the matchbot see below. From the matchbot I should have above 17psi of boost by 3000rpm and full 26psi by 4500rpm.

[Lithium]

57 minutes ago, B-rice said:

I was referring to the Borg Warner Airwecks S300 series or the new s320.They cheaper than the EFR series but there is a huge turbine to comp selection.

Using the matchbot see below. From the matchbot I should have above 17psi of boost by 3000rpm and full 26psi by 4500rpm.
 

I clearly misintepreted what you meant when you said " Has anyone got a compressor map for the HTA3582?"   

OK, I feel like I am reasonably switched on with engine/turbo dynamics but I keep seeing these "from the matchbot I should have xxpsi by yyrpm" comments and have no idea where people are getting that from - I feel like there isn't enough information available to do that, though I know there is always something to learn so I'll ask - how are you estimating that spool?

Edited May 21, 2017 by Lithium

[whatsisname]

My RB2530 was running a HTA GT3586R with the FP 0.85 rear. Best we got out of it was 463.7kW at the wheels on 25psi (dyno sheet is in the RB30 results thread) More boost and more timing made no difference to power. Mild non-Neo head, HKS cams, 3.5" exhaust. A 1.01 or 1.06 will be required to reach 500kW. Response was outstanding with the 0.85, will obviously lose a bit with the 1.01/1.06.
I decided to switch to the new Gen2 GTX3584RS with 1.01

[B-rice]

There are a number of ways to do it pretty much shit I learnt at uni. But anyone is very much capable of working it out. When I get home tonight I'll post here how it's done. It's pretty much similar to sizing a pump.

 

The matchbot link is here. I do realise this isn't a Borg Warner thread. http://www.turbos.borgwarner.com/go/78GY1U

 

 

[whatsisname]

Dyno of my old HTA GT3586R 0.85 set-up, to save on searching through the RB30 dyno results thread.

[LaurelPWR]

Dyno of my old HTA GT3586R 0.85 set-up, to save on searching through the RB30 dyno results thread.

Looks a little laggier than I expected but I bet it felt a shitload faster in the real world when under load (dyno doesn't give real world load experience)