S1 Build. Need Opinions To Make A Decision!

[Mr_RS4]

Hey guys,

So basically here is the story. I have my daily S1 still auto with the RB25 obviously. And I also have an uncomplied (can't be complied and don't know how the previous owner ever thought he was going to be able to) S1 sitting here in my garage with an RB26 and manual. I bought it blind and my best case scenario was a swap everything into my S1 and away I go type deal. But when it arrived it wasn't exactly as perfect as the seller made it out to be (wasn't expecting it to be though) but for the price I paid it was worth the risk.

Now obviously I will be ripping all the manual conversion gear out and using that but I'm stuck as to which way to go with the engines? My RB25 has about 225,000k's on it now. Its still running strong (haven't comp tested it though), need valve stem seals though (little smokey first thing in the morning for a few seconds) but it hasn't had a hard life really.

The RB26 runs strong as well but the cars been sitting for a couple of years with the previous owner and the fluids are in pretty bad shape. But your guess is as good as mine as to what k's are on it and internally what condition its in? Could last a week, couple of months, years?

Both motors are stock, stock turbos etc. And to be honest I'm not looking to make big numbers with this car (but more than the 160awkw its making now). Its my daily driver so reliability and at least no worse fuel economy than I'm getting now (hopefully a little better) is key.

So I know I have a few options here and I'm dead stuck on which way to go.

Keep current RB25 in there and just swap the manual for now. Then save for a rebuild on the 26 then do the swap later on.

Just swap the 26 and hope for the best. (Its my daily remember!)

I've even been looking at going the RB30 route as I really like the idea of the extra torque to move its fat arse around easier. As far as I know the RB25 head is a straight bolt on, 26 needs mods doesn't it? But I also want this car fully legal so how will I go with the RB30 blocks engine number (being an older motor)?

Also both cars are running stagea front/rear diffs and drive shafts still (except my daily is running an S14 rear subframe and shafts). But I have both front/rear diffs and drive shafts from a 260RS on their way from Japan in a container at the moment so which ever way I go these will be going on.

So I'm just after opinions as to which way I go. My mind changes on a daily basis. I'm still stripping the other car down at the moment and am having holidays in September to get all this done so need to have it all sorted by then.

Thanks everyone.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Mr_RS4

[mungy]

Its really going to come down to personal prefrence mate, they are both great engines and both have the potential to be high powered.

my personal prefrence is the 26, but id rather spend the time dropping in a worked 26 and if it were me I would drive the 25 for as long as i could while i spend money building the 26.

but you then run the possibility of doing what 99.9% of people do with big builds......give up half way because its too hard, too expensive, bills come up ect ect.

If i were you i would keep the 26 to build, sell parts off the stag your not keeping to spend on the 26 build.

[Mr_RS4]

Thats the option I'm leaning towards at the moment. As much as I like the idea of the Rb30 bottom end, being an older motor than the car its not going to be legal. Like I said I'm not after huge power but want a reliable motor. I'm aware of the costs involved in building a tough 26 but seeing as I'm not chasing massive power figures it would just be a mild build. But yeah there will be plenty of parts for sale when I've finished stripping the donor car and decide on what I'm keeping and whats going.

[Brick]

I'm with mungy. Build the 26 whike driving the 25. Hopefully it hangs in long enough to get the job done.

No point putting in a old motor you don't know what condition it's in when you have a motor you know is good.

Your in a good position where you don't need to change it, gives you the chance to do it right and also wait for good deals to come up on internals etc

[Mr_RS4]

Yeah well like I said the 25 is still in pretty good shape so its not like I'm on borrowed time with it. I think just getting the manual behind the 25 will probably be enough to keep me happy while I wait to build the 26

[wolverine]

Losing VCT isn't a step forward IMO for a fat slug. I would keep what is working and doing the job. A tiny increase in swept volume isn't worth the hassle IMO unless you engine has failed already.

I would clean up the RB26 and sell it. Put the funds towards the RB30.

Legality and hurdles more or less vary from state to state.

[KiwiRS4T]

^^^Like he said do the manual swap and build an RB30 - use your RB25 head when you are ready to drop it in. . The low speed torque is great for a daily and you can easily get 300kw with a low mount GT3076. I doubt anybody is going to spot that the engine is sitting a few mm higher.

[Trex]

Sell the 26 and buy a cheap 25 and build that? Would be heaps easier and save money

[Mr_RS4]

Like I said I'd rather go the RB30 route but I want the right engine numbers on the rego incase I had to make an insurance claim or I decide to sell the car. I don't want any hassles there.

[Trex]

Call an engineer and someone who does blue slips then.

[Mr_RS4]

Call an engineer and someone who does blue slips then.

Ok after a little more research it looks like I may get away with the older than age of the car problem with the RB30 block because it'll be using a modern twin cam head with emissions gear etc, and will probably need an emissions test. Will have to call around to some engineers in QLD and confirm this though. I always thought that if the motor is older than the car regardless of head etc. that you wouldn't be able to legally do it.

Can anyone in QLD confirm that they have had an RB25/26/30 combo engineered and registered?

Either way I'm just going to do the manual conversion and swap all the other bits I want for now and keep the RB26 aside till I make a decision. It will either be an RB30 bottom end or build the 26.

Thanks for the input guys.

[4bidn1]

"Mild" what sort of power you chasing ? 25 heads don't bolt straight on 30 block close but still few bits to alter and if you where going to do that you would be better off sourcing a neo head ,don't forget to factor In the cost of 4wd sump adapter and aftermarket computer to run the old girl .

[4bidn1]

, you might have trouble also with insurance as the s1 rs4 did not come out as a manual, only the 260s and s2rs4s .this can be tricky as it ya a easy out for the insurance company

[Mr_RS4]

Not the first manual converted car I've had and never had a problem with insurance, this will be the 3rd and have always informed the insurance company. Plenty of other guys on here with converted S1's haven't heard of any insurance issues yet.

[4bidn1]

Yeah my s1 is converted . And yep my insurance company was quite happy to insure , but when I delved deeper good luck getting a claim through , some company's won't touch it coz the fact the year and engine size don't match up to it being manual. Kind of like my work ute a ssz sustained some front end damage , a very well known insurance agency decide a special prestige car excess was to be charged at $800 , it's a bloody commonwhore guys only needed bonnett and front guards, there same as executive commodore panels lol

[Mr_RS4]

I already get hit with the stupid high excess. $400 normal and $400 import excess. And I've made a claim in the past with one of my other converted cars (an S13) and didn't have an issue.

I mean if I was doing this from scratch I'd just buy a bloody 260RS. But I've had my S1 for 7 years now and have spent quite a bit sorting the suspension and brakes out and as dumb as it sounds I've kind of gotten attached to it despite wanting to sell it more than once (actually I did once and bought it back) And the uncomplied car was pretty damn cheap. Even if I did nothing with it and just parted it out I'd make way more than I paid for it. So yeah I'm going about this the hard way and there has been more than one occasion where I've just thought about selling the 2 cars and buying something already done. But I never do anything the easy way

Speaking of insurance though when I was thinking about selling the lot and just getting a 260RS the best online quote I got was a measly $16,000ish. F**K THAT, try and find a 260rs for that price, even an average one. Its no wonder you see the same Stagea's sitting on carsales for months on end when the insurance prices are high and the agreed values are so low! Its hardly worth it.

I should probably stop there before I talk myself out of this whole thing

[Trex]

4bidn1 is saying that because the Stagea rs4 never came in manual it isn't covered by insurance even though they insure you. unlike your s13 which does come in manual and auto. You could be lucky and they'll just use 'Stagea' as a reference, but their job is to make money.

I have no idea if its true or not, it doesn't sound right to me. I've seen crazier stuff get blu slipped.

[Trex]

And with insurance payouts, online wont give you much of room to play.

Phone and make appointments and email if you believe your car is worth more than the market price, provide picture evidence of why.

It comes down to who you speak to in that insurance company, full comp on my falcon with nrma over the phone I was going on about how perfect it was and the rare features it had and got a great agreed value. Then following year I got offered half of the agreed value from the last year HALF.

[wolverine]

Last time I checked in NSW the engineer I spoke to wanted the following things to pass an RB30.

1. Same yr model head (or later)

2. All the standard intake ie. airbox, BOV

3. An emissions test

4. A dyno printout 'without too much power'

5. Upgraded brakes (already done)

Ultimately the cost of the whole conversion including time off the road has been a deterrent but if I was going ahead it is hard to look past a RIPS built/supplied bottom end (or long motor if you have a non neo head) with 4WD cradle shipped over from NZ.

[Mr_RS4]

I guess it depends who what insurance company your looking at, but with modified imports there are really only 2 choices that I'm aware of. Just Cars and Shannons. My agreed value on my S1 isn't too bad seeing as I first insured it with them 7 years ago it was originally insured for what a good 260RS sells for now. Mind you its falling quickly now and I know if I canceled and signed up again it would be cut in half again if not more. i.e wouldn't be worth paying for it. But I think I will call them up (and if I don't like the answer try Shannons) and just confirm that it will be covered.

Anyway I know what options I've got now and will have to sit and have a hard think about it all and weigh it up.