M35 Timing Chain Stretch: Third Party Warranty Claim

[Turning Japanese]

Hello folks.

I am in Auckland New Zealand.

I need some help and advice I have a M35 bought second hand two years ago and added an extended warranty it has done 150k. I now have a diagnosed 'stretched' timing chain. The warranty co. (DriveRight via IAG NZ) is claiming this is 'wear and tear' and not covered. however the engine fault light is on, it stutters now as a result and could cause major internal damage if it breaks. Calling Nissan NZ, they say the chains 'shouldn't..but can stretch' and in their opinion it has failed as they should last for the lifetime of the vehicle with regular servicing.

Other Warranty companies (Like Autosure NZ) cover this replacement due to stretch. So in my view the component has failed. However DriveRight say it has not failed...yet!

The clincher of this is that DriveRight now know the part is 'faulty' and will not cover any damage as a result of continuing to drive. I'm stuck. The warranty clearly states this component is covered (Timing chain and Timing chain tensioners)...but we seem to have a disagreement on the interpretation of 'failure'.

Has anyone experienced this?
My bill is estimated to be $2500 to replace chain.

Cheers.

[ClassOne]

Technically it has not failed, the component is still in tact and has not lost any partial component of its primary construction or warn out to the point that it has failed.

Yes it is warn but it technically has not failed.

Just like a wheel bearing, just because its making a racket does not mean it has failed, it is just at the upper limit of its life span.

A failure would be indicated by a permenant non repairable failure of an integral component.

They are right by saying it is ware and Tare,

But Nissan identified this as a component failure as such.

You could also argue the term failure.

Does that mean complete failure to function OR partial failure to function

Which the latter is true. And you have a supported claim by the manufacturer.

Your dealing with an insurance company, they don't want to pay you.

So you need to be smart with terminology and build yourself a solid case.

I would use the term "failure" as your primary argument, because if it doesn't say complete failure, then it can also partially fail so technically it has failed.

[Daleo]

If they are alleging the chain hasn't failed; by their own reasoning, there is no risk in continuing to drive the car.

They cannot play it both ways; it has either failed and requires replacement, or it is fine, and they must accept and repair any damage the chain does if/when it fails catastrophically.

They cannot hold you to ransom with an essentially undriveable vehicle. A catastrophic failure will cost much more than a chain replacement.

F**k them and their bullshit insurance speak.

[scotty nm35]

I highly doubt the chain is stretched, I have seen many issues with the valve train but none were caused by a stretched chain.

Who diagnosed it? What is the fault code?

[Turning Japanese]

Camshaft sensor fault led to all of this.

They have it all open now and shows the tensioners at 'full tension' ... with the chain well 'stretched?'

i need to really think of my next steps now.

[Spong]

Check your private messages as I may have some info to share. I'm in Auckland also.

[KiwiRS4T]

You could ring Consumer (not sure if you have to be a member) - or "Fair Go" for advice on your rights.

For technical info see Soichi (ST Hytech) or Joe Kyle (Joe's Mechanical Services)- both Nissan experts

[projects]

i left a message on the other forum, but i've recently replaced a chain also. they do stretch, but this is a 280+ km engine i done. I would class your situation as wear and tear, but then as said if they dont class it to be a failure and they do cover when it does fail they'll be up for a bigger bill to replace the motor than replacing a chain that is 'failing' according to manufacturer's assessment already.

So have you decided to get someone to replace it all now for $2.5k?

[Turning Japanese]

I need to make a call tomorrow morning on asking the mechanics to proceed with the replacement. Going to talk to the insurer one more.time now with my new information

Thanks all

[KiwiRS4T]

What shop is it in? Sounds like a lot of money. If you're not already there try and get a price on the phone from Soichi and Joe.

I need to make a call tomorrow morning on asking the mechanics to proceed with the replacement. Going to talk to the insurer one more.time now with my new information

Thanks all

[projects]

a good mechanic who know's his way around a stagea, (most wont because they dont need this replacement done often) should be able to do the replacement in a full day. I used to work at nissan and got my parts at cost which was just over $700, retail was about $1k. The fluids need to be replaced, 5l of oil and coolant, you might as well get them to do a oil filter as well. And then the labour factor. So 2.5K is a bit but wouldnt say its to far off the right figure.

[Turning Japanese]

In the category of "while it's open"......

Can I get your views on:

Rear chain and guides too? or don't bother if ok.

Water pump? Or should be fine too?

[scotty nm35]

The small cam chains will require a lot of work to replace I think, as the cams may need to be removed... I would get them to replace the chain and guides only if that's what they diagnosed.

What were the symptoms, noisy chain slap?

What engine are we talking about?

The water pump can be easily changed without dropping the front of the engine, don't bother doing it now if it's still working.

[projects]

I didnt do the secondary chains. They have tensioners to take up the slack and the chains are short enough that any wear would not cause any stretch issues like the primary.

I replaced my water pump while I was in there cause of the high k's. It was starting to show a bit of play and bearing noise. But if yous is fine I'd leave it in there, like what Scotty said.

[Turning Japanese]

Hello there,

well I thought I would give those interested a bit of an update.

After some extensive negotiations with the warrant company they have conceded that the chain (in my case) has FAILED.

This is excellent news as it means they are willing to front for the repair.

Still excluded in their view were the chain guides - as they thought they could be reused. I decided to still replace them.

So a lesson here for anyone reading in a similar position is...do not accept the first DECLINE or NO.

While the chains may have some 'wear' over the lifetime of an engine....they should not cause the engine to FAIL (In my case camshaft sensor fault and Stuttering engine, particularly on hills)

I appreciate your tips and advice and now have a puuuuuring Stagea again.

Cheers

[scotty nm35]

Make sure they change the guides, especially the tensioner one. (known failure point as the plastic guide plate becomes brittle.)

I would say this may be the main cause of your issues, or perhaps the tensioner. If the chain has indeed 'stretched' or worn beyond what the tensioner can take the slack of, then I would be checking the oil feed squirters to the chain aren't blocked.

[66yostagea]

I had an RMR30 that did 600k on it's chain.

[Daleo]

Hello there,

well I thought I would give those interested a bit of an update.

After some extensive negotiations with the warrant company they have conceded that the chain (in my case) has FAILED.

This is excellent news as it means they are willing to front for the repair.

Still excluded in their view were the chain guides - as they thought they could be reused. I decided to still replace them.

So a lesson here for anyone reading in a similar position is...do not accept the first DECLINE or NO.

While the chains may have some 'wear' over the lifetime of an engine....they should not cause the engine to FAIL (In my case camshaft sensor fault and Stuttering engine, particularly on hills)

I appreciate your tips and advice and now have a puuuuuring Stagea again.

Cheers

Look, I think NO is always the standard first response from these 3rd party warranty suppliers.

It's always worth fighting! If their initial response is NO; what's the worst that could happen?

Good to hear you stuck to your guns & got what you paid for.