Holden

[Al Despo]

R&D going....

[GTR-N1]

I'm no economist but only trying to join some dots, am I...

Q Why are ex-gov't vehicles these days consisting of Renaults, Peugeots, Hyundais as well as Fords, Camrys & Holdens?

Q If Renaults, Peugeots and Hyundais somehow get damaged, don't their replacement parts come from France and Korea?

Q Doesn't Australia have a parts industry for our Fords, Camrys and Holdens (not including Cruze-Daewoo)?

Q If Australian CommCars are Aussie made vehicles, then why can't other state gov't and local gov't vehicles be Aussie made too?

Q Extrapolating, why can't all vehicles be Aussie made when the purchasing officers of the following departments do their sums?

* Prisons

* Health workers

* Hospitals

* Pathology

* RTA/RMS

* Buses (now there's a new market)

* Trains (another new market)

* RailCorp

* Councils

* Police

* Judiciary

* Dept of Secondary and Primary Education

* Universities

etc etc etc

Q Am I on the right page here?

[Cowboy1600]

I'm no economist but only trying to join some dots, am I...

Q Why are ex-gov't vehicles these days consisting of Renaults, Peugeots, Hyundais as well as Fords, Camrys & Holdens?

Q If Renaults, Peugeots and Hyundais somehow get damaged, don't their replacement parts come from France and Korea?

Q Doesn't Australia have a parts industry for our Fords, Camrys and Holdens (not including Cruze-Daewoo)?

Q If Australian CommCars are Aussie made vehicles, then why can't other state gov't and local gov't vehicles be Aussie made too?

Q Extrapolating, why can't all vehicles be Aussie made when the purchasing officers of the following departments do their sums?

* Prisons

* Health workers

* Hospitals

* Pathology

* RTA/RMS

* Buses (now there's a new market)

* Trains (another new market)

* RailCorp

* Councils

* Police

* Judiciary

* Dept of Secondary and Primary Education

* Universities

etc etc etc

Q Am I on the right page here?

This used to be the case but as part of the various Free Trade Agreements made under Howard (and pursued by Labor), these rules had to go. Forcing Government employees to purchase local is considered protectionism which is BAAAAAAAD apparently. Of course, we didn't, nay couldn't, force this upon our fellow FTA friends cause we don't have the bargaining power, but we'll happily let our industry die due to it. The US still have these rules in place as well as many other rules excluding Australian products from being imported as well as subsidies for their local industries, however this is apparently "Free Trade".

As for money for the car industry, it's a necessary evil. There are literally hundreds of thousands of people employed in the car industry chain. And on top of that we pay very little compared to pretty much every other country which manufacturers cars.

The next 6 months will be interesting. Abbott decried the money going to Ford and Holden as wasteful. Has he painted himself into a corner or will he simply bullshit his way out of it and hand them cash anyway?

Oh, and the point made earlier regarding Toyota, Ford, Holden and Toyota share many components made locally. Those component manufacturers can only continue manufacturing as long as the volume is high enough. Take Holden out of the picture and many of those companies won't be able to survive based on Toyota volumes alone so they go to the wall meaning Toyota can no longer source parts locally leaving them high and dry.

[GTR-N1]

Yes, we'll adding insult to injury 10mins ago, there's a Police Peugeot on the M4

Number plate CHRSCO

[Cowboy1600]

Yes, we'll adding insult to injury 10mins ago, there's a Police Peugeot on the M4

Number plate CHRSCO

Diamond Creek police have a brand new black marked Chrysler 300c SRT as a chase vehicle.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Cowboy1600

[iseekool]

I'm no economist but only trying to join some dots, am I...

Q Why are ex-gov't vehicles these days consisting of Renaults, Peugeots, Hyundais as well as Fords, Camrys & Holdens?

Q If Renaults, Peugeots and Hyundais somehow get damaged, don't their replacement parts come from France and Korea?

Q Doesn't Australia have a parts industry for our Fords, Camrys and Holdens (not including Cruze-Daewoo)?

Q If Australian CommCars are Aussie made vehicles, then why can't other state gov't and local gov't vehicles be Aussie made too?

Q Extrapolating, why can't all vehicles be Aussie made when the purchasing officers of the following departments do their sums?

* Prisons

* Health workers

* Hospitals

* Pathology

* RTA/RMS

* Buses (now there's a new market)

* Trains (another new market)

* RailCorp

* Councils

* Police

* Judiciary

* Dept of Secondary and Primary Education

* Universities

etc etc etc

Q Am I on the right page here?

Maybe Australia needs to start making more smaller and economical vehicles on-par or better than the overseas manufacturers. I think Holden make the Cruze locally - but I guess there is a stigma that its roots are Korean.

I'm sure most reason why these government agencies choose international is because they can offer cars that do not depreciate fast (via the leasing company) and are good on fuel.

On a side note - If Holden/Toyota sold an economical turbo charged 1.6L to 2L RWD cars with handling to match and the size of a Corolla - it can easily capture the interests of motoring enthusiasts around the world.

[GTR-N1]

Last paragraph ^^^

Now that's a niche filled I'd like to see!

Toyota Aust has already learned much from its 86. That I know.

Subie wouldn't have taken its eye off the ball either I bet.

[scotty nm35]

Two guys I know work in the R+D department at Holden, I feel for them. Apparently they have been getting rid of employees in the department for a while.

[*LOACH*]

As far as Toyota goes the Australian cent is almost equal to the yen now (ie AUD$ is very expensive) so if Holden were to stop producing and component makers in Australia increased their prices there would be a lot of pressure on Toyota to just import all cars from Japan etc. On the other side of the coin the high dollar means Australia could import engines for cheaper - VL for the 21st century sounds like heaven to me

As far as producing a 1.6L-2.0L turbo car goes I think that is a pretty crowded niche with a limited market - admittedly RWD would make it unique but it would probably end up costing more than an AWD car from Europe or Japan and much more than an FT86. I think Holden have a good niche with the Commodore, being able to sell it overseas and using it as a base for other GM RWD cars. If only they could get an electric/hybrid etc powered one developed and get rego/tax subsidies for owners in Australia (as Japanese EVs/hybrids get in Japan) then it would be great - but I guess that probably doesn't fit in with GMs global plan - Volt etc).

Edited September 20, 2013 by *LOACH*

[niZmO_Man]

On a side note - If Holden/Toyota sold an economical turbo charged 1.6L to 2L RWD cars with handling to match and the size of a Corolla - it can easily capture the interests of motoring enthusiasts around the world.

2L turbo rear wheel drive. I don't know why Hyundai isn't pushing this here.

[Redline_GTR]

Definitely some valid points to consider.

Wonder how this is going to turn out.

Either way something has to be sorted out and soon.

[Seano350GT]

rumours the Genesis coupe is coming to Oz next year FYI..

[MagicMikeZ32]

1. Orly?

WTF

[gts-4 dreamer]

if 100yen to the dollar, aus dollar is good return since the yen is really high. Its not 1 yen to the dollar, its 100yen to the dollar.

If there is only one buyer for goods and lots of goods, then the power lies with the buyer, not the seller, which means that if toyota was alone it could command whatever price it wanted, with only a few players, ref they only assemble here, they don't manufacture anyway, they still command the price they want anyway.

[*LOACH*]

if 100yen to the dollar, aus dollar is good return since the yen is really high. Its not 1 yen to the dollar, its 100yen to the dollar.

If there is only one buyer for goods and lots of goods, then the power lies with the buyer, not the seller, which means that if toyota was alone it could command whatever price it wanted, with only a few players, ref they only assemble here, they don't manufacture anyway, they still command the price they want anyway.

Is this post directed at me? If so you will note that in my post I said that "the Australian cent is almost equal to the yen now". Note Australian CENT not dollar.

In addition I don't understand your supply and demand point. Do you mean Toyota as buyer, if it were to be the only manufacturer in Australia, would be able to dictate prices to parts manufacturers? Or do you mean Toyota as seller, if it were to be the only manufacturer in Australia, would be able to price cars however they wanted? I don't think either of these points are valid.

Edited October 4, 2013 by *LOACH*

[GTR-N1]

What brand buses do they use nowadays in Japan Paul?

Every time I see a bus, I'm thinking, "That could have been a Holden".

[AMR33]

Shut Holden and use the money for one out of a million and one better things than bailing it out. What is to say that giving them the cash is going to sustain the company on the long run (10-15yrs)? Nothing. And what happens when they go broke again? Aussie cars are simly not as popular and as sought after as before. Jap and german are dominating and its not hard to see why. You get a lot of car for less money. Holden keep making rubbish everyday cars and their "performace" range is full of single cam terrible motors and vehicles. If they want to stay in business they should raise the cash, not tax payers, most of whom dont drive holdens and never will. Use the money for something else.

[Leroy Peterson]

Q Extrapolating, why can't all vehicles be Aussie made when the purchasing officers of the following departments do their sums?

* Trains (another new market)

* RailCorp

I'll chime in with the only topic listed i know anything about...

even if an existing international company like Siemens brought production of national trains to Aus, it'd be way too expensive an exercise for a country with different rail networks (system voltages, comms, track width, sizes) that dont buy enough trains on a regular basis. I'm sure siemens already has technicians based out here who assemble and probably repair the trains. I think thats about as good as its going to get.

[GTR-N1]

Sigh...

[niZmO_Man]

You would expect that uniting into a nation would lead to things like standardised train rails...