Any thoughts about Microtech lt8?

[maximajim]

I am planning to buy the lt8 as they can be bought for a decent price here in the states. Seems to be a better than the pfc. No need to upgrade MAF, no need for datalogit.

Any users of this system here?

[justified2.4]

I am planning to buy the lt8 as they can be bought for a decent price here in the states.  Seems to be a better than  the pfc. No need to upgrade MAF, no need for datalogit.

Any users of this system here?

Who are you planning on getting Microtech from?

Touge Factory or Phase2 by chance?

I just realized you were in NYC, I am up that way all the time.

AIM: JCAP Tuning

[whatsisname]

I run the LT12 Microtech and I am extremely happy with it.

[Blade]

Yep microtech is awesome mate...

I had a choice between autronic or microtech...hard decision

[Sydneykid]

No ....... MAF

Yep, for me that's the problem with Microtech, they don't work with AFM's. They use there own MAP sensor which reads air pressure to guess what the air flow is. Whereas an AFM actually measures the air flow. The PFC uses ALL of the standard Skyline wiring and sensors, it simply plugs in. I can fit a Power FC in under 5 minutes and drive the car away, try that with a Microtech.

Some people look at the PFC Commander as only a tuning tool and a compromised one at that. I find it invaluable as a set of gauges, it tells me boost, inlet air temperature (on the GTR), engine water temperature, AFM voltage, idle rpm, road speed, ignition timing, injector duration, throttle position etc etc. Gauges to do this sort of stuff would cost far more than the Commander. Plus, as a diagnostic tool it is invaluable when fault finding.

Moving on to the Datalogit system, it is a better tuning interface than the Commander. More user friendly and it opens up some of the hidden tuning parameters. It also has a couple of selectable output channnels for things like intercooler spray etc. But I find its real forte is collecting and analysing data, all of the PFC collectibles plus a few more external inputs can be added. We have oil temperature and ambient air temperature for example.

So before you make a decision you need to be sure you are comparing apples with apples.

[whatsisname]

The Microtech handset gives the same info as the Commander (except AFM voltage - for some strange reason )for a MUCH cheaper price! Then you've got the Dash on top of that. Microtech has basic logging via handset and full logging via laptop.

I've been very lucky that my choice of tuner and aftermarket ECU has saved me a great deal of money. I've had excellent tuning support and very reasonable prices throughout the whole ECU, handset, injector and tuning upgrades. Had I gone with the PFC I wouldn't even be close to reaching the point I'm at now.

The Microtech requires 1 additional sensor (inlet air temp) which takes bugger all time to install and wire, and by using the existing AFM wiring you have no need to run any wires at all. It doesn't actually NEED this sensor to run, but without it you aren't making the most of the ECU. Other than that, it's plug-in and away you go.

With the Microtech you're not locked into any particular injector type. High or low impedance is fine. This was a big saving for me! (workshop was able to use local injector suppliers MUCH cheaper than Japanese bolt-in stuff) AFAIK the PFC requires the OEM injector impedance, yes?

I guess where I'm going with all this is... there's so much more to it than JUST the brand/model of ECU that you chose. With a good tuner the LT12 (and I daresay all LT models) can be made to run fantastically, with excellent driveability, idle, cold start and economy only a touch below a closed loop system.

ANY aftermarket ECU can be made to look like a piece of crap if it isn't well tuned, or correctly suited to the application. And I firmly believe it is for this reason that many ECUs (in fact many products in general) get a poor reputation.

[Sydneykid]

Had I gone with the PFC I wouldn't even be close to reaching the point I'm at now.

Is that because you couldn't find a decent PFC tuner? Or is there some advantage that a Microtech has over a PFC?

The Microtech requires 1 additional sensor (inlet air temp) which takes bugger all time to install and wire,

Don't you need to install pipe work and/or additonal wiring harness for the Microtech MAP sensor?

AFAIK the PFC requires the OEM injector impedance, yes?

Yes, but that doesn't mean you have to run

Japanese bolt-in stuff

you can still

use local injector suppliers

You just buy the right impedance, there is no difference in price between high and low impedance injectors. The price difference occurs when you have commonly available top feed or the more rare side feed. :cooldance

This is the killer for me

economy only a touch below a closed loop system.

Why would I ever run open loop on a road car when I don't have to? :headspin:

So far I have done a bit of dissagreeing, but I absolutely agree with

ANY aftermarket ECU can be made to look like a piece of crap if it isn't well tuned

That doesn't mean I have to find a dedicated XYZ brand ECU expert, a GOOD tuner should be able to tune any ECU as long as it is capable.

Easy question maximajim, not so easy answer HUH? :wavey:

[WHITE R32]

sydneykid just thought i would add i fitted my microtech in 5 minutes and drove away..... u only need to hook up 1 vac line to the built in map sensor and then run 1 wire for the a/t sensor and plug the ecu straight into the standard loom easy as pie

[Sydneykid]

sydneykid just thought i would add i fitted my microtech in 5 minutes and drove away..... u only need to hook up 1 vac line to the built in map sensor and then run 1 wire for the a/t sensor and plug the ecu straight into the standard loom easy as pie

Give me a brake, you ran a vaccuum line from the plenum through the engine bay, found or drilled a hole in the firewall, plumbed it up to the Microtech in the standard ecu mounting position. Then you mounted an air temp sensor (it needs an earth and an active) and ran the wire from the front of the engine bay, found or drilled a hole in the firewall, terminated it and then plugged it into the Microtech in the standard ecu mounting position.

If you did that in 5 minutes, :headspin: I have a job for you any time.

[whatsisname]

SK,

There are no problems’ finding excellent PFC tuners in SA. It's just that in my case I was able to purchase a new LT12 and have it set-up for considerably less than what a 2nd hand PFC was going for 'at the time'. I won't say exactly how low cost, as I was asked not too. I certainly had money left over to do a few extra power-producing mods than had I bought a PFC. It was a bit of a ‘right place - at the right time’ kind of situation. So in answer to your first question SK, no the PFC doesn’t have any advantage over the LT12, except in my case where I had money left over to do MORE modifications. The ongoing support (retuning after new mods and so forth) I have received via my choice has been outstanding!!! Had I chosen a PFC back then, I would still be receiving the same level of support now, but back then it wouldn't have been the case. Obviously none of this has any bearing on the quality of either ECU, I'm just clarifying my original statement in my first post.

The only major advantage the LT12 and LT handset has over the PFC and Commander (correct me if I’m wrong?) is the LT12’s ability to select between multiple maps within a few seconds, and all at the touch of just 2 buttons. There's no need to plug a laptop in for this feature. It's something I use quite a bit. And probably very useful to the US based guys where they often run differing octane fuel depending on what they’re up to (going by the forums I’ve read).

Moving right along… In order to set-up a Microtech LT 'plug-in' ECU you do indeed need to drill ‘a’ hole (into the existing pipe work pre-throttle body) and then tap it to suit IAT sensor (pretty simple stuff though) The wiring is already in place as you use one of the AFM wires and its corresponding pin on the OEM ECU plug - The Microtech 'plug-in lead' is configured for this already. Wiring the earth is about as basic as you can get! Running the boost/vac line for the internal MAP sensor doesn’t require any firewall drilling, mine went through an existing hole easy as pie.

I certainly agree that there is more involved in setting up an LT series plug-in as opposed to a PFC, but it’s hardly anything major. It’s not beyond anyone with a poofteenth of an idea (or at least a mate with one).

Open loop - closed loop, yep no argument from me there. I get quite good economy with average driving (400k per tank), but to be totally honest, I really don’t care about economy one little bit. It isn’t my work car so if I get 20kays less per tank so be it.

Yep I agree SK; naturally you would expect a GOOD tuner to be capable of tuning any ECU. My definition of a good tuner is one who not only has the knowledge and ability, but one who has those attributes AND the ‘professionalism’ to apply them to there fullest extent.

In closing… I’m more than happy with my cars driveability, economy, power and value for money since choosing the LT12. I’m also more than happy to take those that are considering the ‘seemingly poor choice’ of an LT12 ECU for a drive.

Cheers,

Matt

[Sydneykid]

Thanks for the well thought out response Matt. I only have one question, if the Microtech had not been "cheap" when you bought it (ie; more expensive than a Power FC is now) would you have still bought it?

[Roy]

I had an MT8 on my old RB20, one thing you may want to pay attention to is your electrical system, be sure your battery and alternator are up to the job, as they need a good strong voltage signal to do their thing, unlike the std ECU that seems to work when the electrical system is a bot hows it going or under high load.

[whatsisname]

Very good question SK! In all honesty had the PFC been offered to me under the same circumstances, then yes, I would've chosen 'it' instead. But for no other reason than it would've been the 'best bang for bucks' at the time.

Based on my limited experience with both ECUs (LT12 and PFC) I would (and often do) recommend either choice.

I haven't had any battery or alternator related voltage issues with my LT12 Roy. But having an Optima D34 Deep Cycle Yellow Top battery probably helps. At ~21kg it certainly puts a bit of extra weight over the rear wheels!

[WHITE R32]

hey SK... in what i said i was just getting at the fact that it was a plug and play ecu.... in reality it doesnt really need the air temp sensor but if u are half smart u know to install and use it anyway......

i was just sorta trying to say that they make a plug in ecu for skylines now which will be a major selling point for them in the future....

and i spose i cant get a job with ya anyway cause it took me about 15 minutes but still its a shorter time that having to wire it up the old school way....

and also another thing ... the main reason i bought the lt12 plug in over the pfc was the fact that i know how the microtech menus and stuff are so it was alot easier for me to get the lt12 and feel confident in knowing that if i had to make changes off the dyno for any mods that i did to make it run ok till it could get onto the dyno i could do it i just havent had any experience with a pfc tho i am sure overall they are a much better ecu....

[maximajim]

So before you make a decision you need to be sure you are comparing apples with apples.

Here is what I'm looking at :

LT8 with laptop adapter, software, 3 bar map sensor ~1550 AUD +-

PFC with Q45 MAF,FC Datalogit ~1850 AUD +-

I have a set a dash guages so the commander is not worth it (vs. fc datalogit)

My primary concern is laptop datalogging and ease of making adjustments.

Ability to plug and play is a non-issue because finding a shop to tune either will be difficult and time consuming anyway.

So pretty much it boils down to a features/prices comparision.

Justified: If I get a lt8 it will be from AUS, it costs less.

[USRB25S13]

I am in the same boat as maximajim....I have an RB25 swaped into my 240 and have upgraded the turbo and IC and now I am looking for more power. I think I accually lost power from the upgrade since the ECU is now running the car very rich up top.

PFC has been my first option. The Microtech sounds really cool. Where can we get one in the US though?

[maximajim]

Phase2 and Touge Factory for RB25 specific.

[Sydneykid]

Hi guys, you made a decision, so its up to me to help;

MicrotechUSA.Com

21 W. Fullerton

Addison, Illinois 60101

www.microtechusa.com

or direct at

www.microtech-efi.com

I have a few suggestions from our experiences The trick we find with the LT8 is it has 4 coils pack driver. So you need to configure the wiring harness to run wasted spark on circuits #1, #2 & #3 and then earth out #4. If you don't do that you will have difficulties getting the engine to start. The LT8 has 3 injector circuits so you have to make sure you parrallel up the injectors according to the firing order (eg; 1 & 5, 3 & 6 , 2 & 4). If you do it in any other order you will have difficulties tuning during the boost climb rpm.

We have found the LT12 with 6 ignition drivers and 6 injectors drivers to be a far easier install, with superior results than the LT8. More power, better fuel economy and more able to handle high rpm and boost at the same time. It really is worth the extra $.

Hope that helps

[whatsisname]

I 100% agree with SK re LT8 over LT12. The combination of LT12 and RB25DET is a tried and tested one.