Semi's For Sprints & Hill Climbs

[Mr. Untouchable]

hi guys, i know there is already a couple of tyre threads but just wanna narrow it down to sprints, which here are on 60 second tracks and are 4 laps and some hill climbs.

car is 33 gtst, reasonable amount of weight removed, would be around 1300kg I'd guess.

350 killawasps

basic aero

bilsteins and the usual stuff

running 18x9.5's all round

I'm more focused on sprints than hill climbs but want something suitable for both.. and the one or two time attack events we have here in the apple isle.

I'm looking @

- Kumho V70a mediums (quoted at 440 per tyre)

-Hankook Z221 mediums (about 480 per tyre)

-Federal FZ 201 Mediums (365 per tyre but plus postage)

or there is talk of these achillies 123's but my gut says no. (cheap as chips)

kumho's are well liked by the locals and have proven to be fast, not usre about hill climbs tho.

hankooks have a great rep

Federals sound good, will the mediums do both the sprints and hill climbs?

and the ye olde achilles, have been used locally, although was wet and proved to be quite fast. gut still says no....

please, your experiences. something that will do both and naturally looking best bang for buck... cheers

Edit - also wet weather performace counts. dont expect them to be 100% but must be able to deal with a damp surface, it is tassie.

Edited July 16, 2013 by Mr. Untouchable

[Duncan]

So I think the key thing for sprints and hillclimbs is to buy the softest tyre you can from any given range. The tyre can't get hot enough in a minute or 5 to go off, so use the extra grip.

As for your ideas:

- Kumho V70a mediums (quoted at 440 per tyre). I found these very good, and they last well (ie, they continue to grip well until there is no tread left!). On the other hand, they had a huge/dangerous failure rate when they were the control tyre in our category, particularly under the heavy cars.

-Hankook Z221 mediums (about 480 per tyre). I've never used these, but they won $uperlap last year. Based on this I'd guess they are excellent, and will probably wear quickly.

-Federal FZ 201 Mediums (365 per tyre but plus postage). I was very happy with these as a price/performance and will continue to use them. The only concern is they were poor in the wet.

or there is talk of these achillies 123's but my gut says no. (cheap as chips). No idea, but I will say the Achilles sport (road tyres) on my cube have been surprisingly good, so don't assume the brand is rubbish (lets face it...established brands and expensive and rest on their laurels, while new brands have to work harder).

Ultimately you are competing in short runs, so tyres will have a higher than normal impact on whether you are quick or not. If you want to win you will need to spend up, I'd suggest trying the Hankooks or if you are rolling in cash go Yoko A050 or Dunlop Dz03. And if not, go the Federals

[Mr. Untouchable]

Thanks for the detailed reply mate, much appreciated. The federals really sound good, but I'm a little scared about the wet weather side of things. The pattern doesn't look all that weather friendly either. The fact the kumho's sound like they give good life and grip til almost bald is pretty enticing. In my car fixing days I noted a lot of the targa cars ran the kumho's too so they can't be too bad in the wet. But the feddies still sound like the best bang for buck. And I hear you on the achillies, I shouldn't snob them. They seem well liked, and Definatly go alright in the wet, I guess I just see them as another RSR, rt615 or ku36, a glorified street tire. If I was a cashed up $uperlaper I'd go the z221 or ao50's no questions lol. But I'm just a pleb!

[hrd-hr30]

Yep, the Achilies are not a true semi. They're in the Federal RSR, Yoko AD08, Kumho KU36 etc category. An ultra high performance road tyre that can take the abuse of track days, but will be seconds off the pace of true semis.

FZ201 were good when they first appeared (I had a set), but changed a while ago and by all accounts are now rubbish. I would not buy them now.

I've had bad experiences with Kumho slicks and will not buy their slicks or semis again just in case. Too many blowouts for my liking. Their performance seems pretty hit an miss too - they work well on some cars, but can be shit on others - even other fast, experienced guys.

Out of your list the standout performer is the Hankook. Their 2 groove tyre is about $60 a pop cheaper if they are allowed in the things you enter.

If you just want a semi that will not do anything nasty but not be on the pace of the expensive suff, the R888 or NT01s are available cheap online.

Edited July 16, 2013 by hrd-hr30

[Mr. Untouchable]

Mmm disappointing news on the federals. I was leaning that way. So it's kinda down to the kumho or the kooks. A mate got some delivered for 1850 I think and the kumho's will be 1760 so not much in it.

[Mr. Untouchable]

Yeah had r888's before, were okay, but car was pig dog so couldn't blame them for the average times I was doing. I guess it's just their rep that puts me off now. And I was told the Hankook mediums and kumho mediums were softer than the gg comp r888's.. Ahh decisions decisions

[hrd-hr30]

yeah, the R888s are not in the same league as the other semis performance wise, but they are cheap and durable. I've had them recently as well.

[GTR32G]

The Kumho V70a seem well liked on the lighter cars at supersprints like MX5, Lotus Elise and Clubman kit cars. My dad and brother has used them for years on a PRB Clubman with no problem. Duncan's comment that they retain there grip level even when worn out is true my brother still finds lap records when the tyres are a year old which is always nice.

We have also used the Kumho V70a Medium vs the Toyo R888 on a EVO MR and the Kumho was around .8 sec faster a lap at Wakefield Park

I have used the Hankook Z221 Mediums on the R35 GTR they are unreal for grip but dont expect more than 2 laps at Wakefield and 1 lap at Eastern Creek before they go off, most the fast time attack cats at sprints will only do the 1 lap on them and pit as they do go off. So if you are after fastest time they are great but but if you drive on the limit you will not get 3-4 laps out of them with killing the tyre.

[gtr jet]

I'm in the same boat as you jack so I'm finding this info very useful.

At the moment I'm running KU36's and find they only last 1-2 laps before they go off. They are on a heavy car though and are 245 wise stretched over 9.5" rims.

I was planning on trying the Achilles 123's but heard they go off after 1-2 laps as well.

I'm on a small budget so don't want to spend thousands on the top Hankook's or Yoko's. I've been looking for second hand stuff but I'm struggling.

[Sir Lord Van Von Vader'ham]

If you do try the fz201's you'll need to use the soft's. The medium take three lap of wakefield in my car (simular specs) to warm up to their grippy temp.

I liked them (medium'so), but I haven't used any other brands to compare them to

[scotty nm35]

I'm in the same boat as you jack so I'm finding this info very useful.

At the moment I'm running KU36's and find they only last 1-2 laps before they go off. They are on a heavy car though and are 245 wise stretched over 9.5" rims.

I was planning on trying the Achilles 123's but heard they go off after 1-2 laps as well.

I'm on a small budget so don't want to spend thousands on the top Hankook's or Yoko's. I've been looking for second hand stuff but I'm struggling.

Is this on a Stagea? I never did like the set of KU36's I used, they seemed good for a while but then the noise started...

I have a set of AO48's on 17x9 inch drifteks if you are interested, only done one track day...

[34GeeTeeTee]

Is this on a Stagea? I never did like the set of KU36's I used, they seemed good for a while but then the noise started...

I have a set of AO48's on 17x9 inch drifteks if you are interested, only done one track day...

Was that from feathering the insides? Mine did that on the 34... Gripped OK, the RSR is slightly better!

On the short hillclimb at Ringwood i can get the rears hot but the fronts dont warm up enough and i suffer from understeer, not ideal but they are just a street tyre as mentioned above!

[GTR32G]

If you are on a budget I would be looking at the Toyo R888 for the wear rate and resonable grip with lap time. Once you go softer than this if you are on a budget with a heavy car like Skylines a good Formula R dose wear out quick when pushed on the limit also the heat cycles will kill a lot of the Formula R.

[Mr. Untouchable]

Good info. All stuff to consider. Sounds like the Hankooks would be a better hill climb tyre but not so good for sprints. The longevity of the kumho's is very enticing. A mate is running them (265 mediums) on his 33 gtst, and has run 3 rounds (of 4 races of 6-10 laps iirc) and punched out a PB on the 3rd round. Says they are holding up pretty well, that's on a 500kw/hollinger beastie so I'd imagine I'd get a full year of super sprints and hill climbs out of a set. Compared to the dunlops dz03 r's which last a race day, which is so far out of my budget it's not funny. Anyone had much experience with the z221's in the wet?

Edited July 17, 2013 by Mr. Untouchable

[Dave.TAS]

Text or call mate, 0409 631 092

Dave - Whitehot Motorsport/discotune

Pm wouldn't work

[gtr jet]

Is this on a Stagea? I never did like the set of KU36's I used, they seemed good for a while but then the noise started...

I have a set of AO48's on 17x9 inch drifteks if you are interested, only done one track day...

Nah, R32 GTR. Thanks for the offer but I've already got wheels.

I've got a pair of R888 sitting at home atm but I need another pair the same size to test them out.

[Mr. Untouchable]

Text or call mate, 0409 631 092

Dave - Whitehot Motorsport/discotune

Pm wouldn't work

inbox was full, just msged you on Facebook mate

[34GeeTeeTee]

inbox was full, just msged you on Facebook mate

You got a build thread or info on the car mate?

[PN-Mad]

Just got back from Wakefield. R888 can choke on a big dick. Mine were old, so they took a while to get some heat in and come back to life, but I got juddering understeer, the got hot, and then wouldn't turn. I had nt01 on the rear which was better, as newer, but found they went off after 5 or 6 laps. May need to decrease pressure more.

End of the day, the semis were no faster than my federal RSR time.

[Mr. Untouchable]

Is anyone out there running the same comp tyre for sprints and hill climbs and if so are you just starting the pressures higher for hill climbs???