Engine And Turbo Woes

[GlennM35]

Long time reader occassional poster here!

So to make a long story short: I've been a bit lazy with the upkeep on my M35 and let the last service go nearly 4 or 5000 ks overdue (I hardly drive it these days and my brain tricks me into thinking I'm not racking up any ks and never pay attention to the odo). Shortly after the last service a sort of ticking/clicking noise appeared from the engine bay somewhere. Didn't think anything of it, thought it must have been something the fan was hitting or something (read: me stupid). Fast forward several months later and now my turbo has blown up, again. Not sure if related...

Now my dilemma is do I get a new turbo or is this ticking noise a whole other can of worms? I'm happy to shell out a couple of grand to get it up and running, but if it's a case of getting a half cut and installing that then I might be better off selling as is for some crazy low price

I've taken it to my mechanic, but as good as he is he's not really that familiar with VQ engines. He sent me off to research because he can't use computers

Thankyou stagea gods

Cheers

Glenn

[Commsman]

Where are you Glenn? It might pay to take it to someone who knows a lot about these cars (eg Jetwreck in Sydney, Scotty M35 in Melb) for some advice.

[GlennM35]

I'm in Canberra which isn't helpful, and driving it to sydney wouldn't do me any favours! I guess I could get it towed/transported though but my wife is about to murder me already over what this car is costing and I'd have to convince her it'd be worth spending more on it before doing that

[Commsman]

OK then. What makes you think the turbo has failed; is it just the ticking noise or doesn't it make boost? Is it the standard turbo or a hi-flow?

[GlennM35]

It's a rebuilt turbo, from Hypergear a few years ago. Standard bearing, not ball. I'm pretty sure it's gone because there's this kind of cruching kind of noise whenever it gets on boost, plus some intermittient random crunchiness at idle as well. Power seems lower too. The mechanic also said it abrubtly lost power when driving up a hill yesterday, like it had just siezed up.

[scotty nm35]

Sounds like the banjo bolts in the sump weren't drilled out, and the turbo died from a lack of oil supply. If you can drop the turbo out again, checking the shaft play on the way out, I think you will find it needs a new set of bushes and a thrust washer replaced. (at least the bush cores are cheap to rebuild if there isn't too much damage.

I would be hitting Stao up for a rebuild price, but I suspect he will need to check the damage first.

Make sure your mechanic drills out all three banjo restrictors when it goes back in.

[hypergear]

You can send the turbocharger back for a check up.

There is a primary oil restrictors in side the sump that Scotty made a comment on, which required to be drilled out.

[Jetwreck]

It's a rebuilt turbo, from Hypergear a few years ago. Standard bearing, not ball. I'm pretty sure it's gone because there's this kind of cruching kind of noise whenever it gets on boost, plus some intermittient random crunchiness at idle as well. Power seems lower too. The mechanic also said it abrubtly lost power when driving up a hill yesterday, like it had just siezed up.

This is in a Silver Stagea isn't it? I'm pretty sure it's the one I drove drown to Canberra to do a while back.

Definitely sound like the turbo is gone....and it was a Hypergear! I remember it very well because I had issues fitting it up..

[GlennM35]

Sounds like the banjo bolts in the sump weren't drilled out, and the turbo died from a lack of oil supply. If you can drop the turbo out again, checking the shaft play on the way out, I think you will find it needs a new set of bushes and a thrust washer replaced. (at least the bush cores are cheap to rebuild if there isn't too much damage.

I would be hitting Stao up for a rebuild price, but I suspect he will need to check the damage first.

Make sure your mechanic drills out all three banjo restrictors when it goes back in.

My mechanic said it probably was a lack of oil supply that did it, but I think it was probably me to blame because he also mentioned there wasn't much oil left when he flushed it, like only a couple of litres. I know it's extremely bad ownership on my part for not keeping up with checking the dipstick regularly but at the very least I've never had the dash light on for low oil.

This is in a Silver Stagea isn't it? I'm pretty sure it's the one I drove drown to Canberra to do a while back.

Definitely sound like the turbo is gone....and it was a Hypergear! I remember it very well because I had issues fitting it up..

Yep it's silver and a Hypergear turbo but the guy I'm dealing with now is the same guy that fitted the turbo 3 years ago. He had a lot of trouble back then getting the old turbo off and swore he'd charge me an extra $30 an hour next time he worked on my car!

Has anyone come across any issues with the ticking/rattling noise before? I can't remember exactly what the mech suggested it could be but he gave me 3 options to do with the variable cam timing and chains and transfer???

[Jetwreck]

$650 labour should be the going rate for removal and install if it still has all the heat shields....if no heat shields you can knock off $100....anything over that and your getting ripped.

The ticking/rattling noise...is it on idle or only under power?

[hypergear]

Well this is a older high flow that has been done three years ago. Taking advise from M35Scotty, today's bearing housing and fittings are all made for direct bolton applications which is a lot easier to fit.

For diagnostics, remove the induction pipe for a visual inspection, if there are no circular markings on the compressor housing profile then have a feel for shaft play. If there are none in and out, with a sticky +/- <1mm side to side, then the turbocharger it self is probably ok. Other wise it requires overhaul which we can sort that out without much expanses.

[GlennM35]

$650 labour should be the going rate for removal and install if it still has all the heat shields....if no heat shields you can knock off $100....anything over that and your getting ripped.

The ticking/rattling noise...is it on idle or only under power?

It's on idle, becomes less apparent once the car is moving along at speed, very hard to hear if it's still there or not. The 2 people I've taken the car to have both thought it sounded like a chain noise of some sort. Coming from the front side of the engine.

Well this is a older high flow that has been done three years ago. Taking advise from M35Scotty, today's bearing housing and fittings are all made for direct bolton applications which is a lot easier to fit.

For diagnostics, remove the induction pipe for a visual inspection, if there are circular markings on the compressor housing profile then have a feel for shaft play. If there are none in and out, with a sticky +/- <1mm side to side, then the turbocharger it self is probably ok. Other wise it requires overhaul which we can sort that out without much expanses.

The car is still at the mechanic's yard so I'll let him know what to look at if I think it's all worth fixing up.

[GlennM35]

...... 3 months later and my mechanic has managed to procrastinate about this job the whole time.

The ticking noise has gone away after flushing some oil through the engine and topping things up. The theory is it might have been a stuck lifter due to low oil levels.

So that just leaves me with the busted turbo.

I've organised for some mechanically minded friends to do the turbo swap in my backyard but when I rang the mechanic today he started on about how he's spoken to 3 workshops about the car, and all advise against replacing the turbo, saying that it's a gamble that the second turbo could blow up due to oil contamination/loose fragments left from the old turbo, and that the car was running with the lifter problem for so long etc so who knows what other damage has been done etc... He advised sourcing another motor and swapping the lot, or selling as is.

The question is, does this sound right? There has to be plenty of other people that are as hopeless as me with checking oil and servicing that have blown up turbos from oil starvation and I'm pretty sure they don't chuck the whole motor because of it.

Any advice? Ultimately looking to sell the car as I already have its replacement.

Thanks for your help guys!

[Sinista32]

Call John at Trojan Motorsports on (02) 62426277 (Canberra). BTW he owns and drives a Stag. The majority of vehicles he works on are Skylines.

He wont feed you any BS. Your current mechanic is - Get rid of him now

BTW did you find any metal or objects what so ever when you did the flush of the old oil ?

Just because the turbo may have shat itself it is most UNLIKELY and Extremely unlucky you will end up with fragments in your engine block.

R32 GTR's are the exception and even then it does not happen very often at all. Later models are better designed.

and yes lack of oil will increase the ticking noise so will the wrong grade of oil

Call John and have a word with him.

Edit. I recently blew my Turbo on my 34GTT Neo. Had it highflowed and put back in. No issues.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Sinista32

[scotty nm35]

The theory is it might have been a stuck lifter due to low oil levels.

The question is, does this sound right?

No, it doesn't sound right, as the VQ doesn't have lifters.

Sounds like your mechanic used the wrong grade of oil. Where are you located Glenn?

[DaveM35]

I agree with everything Sinista said, go to the mechanic he recommended. I guess if you plan to sell the car after repairs then just take whatever route works out to be cheaper. More than likely just a turbo repair will be cheaper than finding and fitting another complete engine.

[Daleo]

It really saddens me to see "mechanics" treating customers this way; either start doing some research, and learn to do the job for the customer, or be honest; and admit you are out of your depth.

Advising you to sell the car broken, and at a huge loss; is terrible advice, and shows you no respect as a customer.
Why would he not remove the sump and at least inspect for the alleged metal particles that have supposedly destroyed the engine?

At this point; yourself and some mechanically minded friends couldn't do any more harm, as long as you get some good advice & take your time with the repairs.

Have a chat with Scotty; he knows these inside out, and will steer you in the right direction.

As an aside; when my turbo completely failed; it made a noise that sounded for all the world like a noisy lifter. Replace the turbo; and see where you are.

[GlennM35]

Call John at Trojan Motorsports on (02) 62426277 (Canberra). BTW he owns and drives a Stag. The majority of vehicles he works on are Skylines.

He wont feed you any BS. Your current mechanic is - Get rid of him now

BTW did you find any metal or objects what so ever when you did the flush of the old oil ?

Just because the turbo may have shat itself it is most UNLIKELY and Extremely unlucky you will end up with fragments in your engine block.

R32 GTR's are the exception and even then it does not happen very often at all. Later models are better designed.

and yes lack of oil will increase the ticking noise so will the wrong grade of oil

Call John and have a word with him.

Edit. I recently blew my Turbo on my 34GTT Neo. Had it highflowed and put back in. No issues.

Thanks for the referral, I'll give him a call this week. He didn't mention any findings in the oil. It sounds like he's talked to a few people that have said what MAY happen in a worst case scenario. Surely if you replace the oil line, flush everything out again, remove whatever bits from the old turbo that are laying around the piping, and prime the new turbo properly, you shouldn't have any more risk than normal?

No, it doesn't sound right, as the VQ doesn't have lifters.

Sounds like your mechanic used the wrong grade of oil. Where are you located Glenn?

I'm in Canberra, probably a bit far for you to come and look!

[GlennM35]

It really saddens me to see "mechanics" treating customers this way; either start doing some research, and learn to do the job for the customer, or be honest; and admit you are out of your depth.

Advising you to sell the car broken, and at a huge loss; is terrible advice, and shows you no respect as a customer.

Why would he not remove the sump and at least inspect for the alleged metal particles that have supposedly destroyed the engine?

At this point; yourself and some mechanically minded friends couldn't do any more harm, as long as you get some good advice & take your time with the repairs.

Have a chat with Scotty; he knows these inside out, and will steer you in the right direction.

As an aside; when my turbo completely failed; it made a noise that sounded for all the world like a noisy lifter. Replace the turbo; and see where you are.

Thanks for that. I'll go see the guy today if get time and suggest to take the sump off and have a look. The diagnostics so far seem to be based off of talking to people rather than actually looking.

[Brick]

Thanks for that. I'll go see the guy today if get time and suggest to take the sump off and have a look. The diagnostics so far seem to be based off of talking to people rather than actually looking.

Don't waste your money with the guy. Just advise him you plan on picking it up. The guy obviously has no interest in working on the car.