Help Me Choose A Track Car

[JimmyRickard]

admittedly while something like an mx5 or clubman will be cheaper to run, hell even a basic stripped out Honda Civic can be damn quick....its not going to make 3-400kws anytime soon is it..

Why aim for 3-400kw when you don't need it? Here's a handful of clubmans well under the intended sub 1.20 for Mallala:

http://www.mscasa.com/results/2013/results_round3.aspx

[ARTZ]

Why aim for 3-400kw when you don't need it? Here's a handful of clubmans well under the intended sub 1.20 for Mallala:

http://www.mscasa.com/results/2013/results_round3.aspx

I know this, But OP said he wanted it for drag events though...

ED* no he didnt my bad....

[GTR-34A]

A lotus would be great if you have the coin for it....expensive to repair when you off and hit a tree/guardrail though...where an r33 shell can be had for 500$

Lets face it you are never going to have real fun out there or be competitive if you are too worried you are going to wreck it....

Good points... but i wouldnt get an actual lotus....

can get a prb clubman (super seven copy) for 25k... pretty much jump in and race??? and registered... 120kw weights 450ish kgs..

not sure how you would go about repairing though, only just started looking into them.

[Roy]

The various Lotus 7 replicas out there can be good things if you buy the right kit. Some are rubbish...others better. Caterham adn Westfield seem to be the pick of the litter. But they are not cheap cars by the time you get them to Aus and built. But epicly quick for outright pace when you [unt them hard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNsunDsRIzA

[GTR-34A]

Yea fair enough, thanks for the info...

I would ideally want to buy prebuilt and already registered, as i have heard they can be quite difficult to get approval these days...

http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Custom-Clubman-2005/SSE-AD-2243119/?Cr=11&sdmvc=1

something like this is what i was thinking... again though, have only done limited research.

[Duncan]

a clubman can be a great choice....but don't forget most of them have about the same power as a pulsar. If you don't want an mx-5, you won't want a clubman for the same reason

[JimmyRickard]

I would've thought power to weight ratio of a clubman would be much higher than an mx5?

[GeeDog]

No doubt that a Clubman can be fast - I compete against an RB20DET power one at Collingrove and can't get close to his times (34's). I considered a 350Z, but too expensive up-front & too expensive to get more than about 180 RWKW - have to go super or turbo charger & that is big dollars. We know the Leggie won't compete with Evo's - hence the desire for a dedicated car - just don't want to be AWD as that's the class (here at least) where the rally guys spend huge dollars to be fast. Besides - RWD is more fun, we currently have one of each.

If we went for an R32 GTT(?) - how much is involved getting decent power from the RB20DET, compared to an R33 with an RB25DET? How does it handle power upgrades? How far would you go on stock internals? I would expect the larger, more powerful from stock motor to be easier to get to 200 / 250 RWKW, but I really don't know.

[dan.1337]

I'm biased because I have an R33 that I track, but here's a very fast one at Winton:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4Ih_iAWyYM

I think he's a forum member too so he might be able to provide details on his car.

[GTR-34A]

a clubman can be a great choice....but don't forget most of them have about the same power as a pulsar. If you don't want an mx-5, you won't want a clubman for the same reason

I wouldnt have thought so?

MX5s weight over double of the clubman, and they have the same power output. so could only think they would be and feel alot faster.

[Roy]

R32s are good things. I have punted mine and loved it for 14 years. But they are old buses. I have barely driven my car this year as for the second time I have to go through all the suspension and driveline and life everything.

On E85 i made 310rwkws with my std RB20 with a TD06-20G. Had a load of bolts on though so over the years it didnt hurt so much. But to throw those bolt ons in one go its probably close to 10k tuned and running at that power. An RB25 with all std manifolds and a $100 high flow turbo and $800 eco and injectors and afm will make the sme power for way less.

The front & rear susp geometry in an R32 isnt as good as an R33...R32sa are pretty much more expensive these days. The wheel arches are smaller....and gearbox not as strong. Though the RB20 in my opinion is way stronger and the reduced torque often makes for an easier car to drive quick and with the extra few revs they can pull along with extra boost they can handle are often not out of their depth racing bigger dispacement RB cars.

But, if you dont care about the looks of the car, just want a strong reliable car that can be quick and interesting to drive...then hard to go past an R33 GTS25t

[fatz]

R33 gtr

Cheap and reliable

[GeeDog]

R33 gtr

Cheap and reliable

And AWD - see my previous post.

Roy - good info, and pretty much what I suspected. I think an R33 GTST is the go for what we want, so we'll go hunting.

So what's the cooling like on an RB25 - with a dual row alloy radiator will it handle multiple hot laps without having to keep looking at the temp gauge? If it's ok at stock power, does it become a problem at higher power levels? I would expect to put an engine cooler on, do I also need aftermarket gearbox and/or power steering coolers?

Also want to confirm that my rims will fit - I have 18 x 8 ET30 with 66mm centre bore - 2003 350Z Track OEM rims - with 235/40 fronts & 245/40 rears. I'm pretty sure they will fit both the hubs / studs & in the guards. What is the stock rim size / offset for R33 GTST?

Edited October 18, 2013 by GeeDod

[evil_weevil]

Mx5s are gay. Don't get one lol

I don't see an issue with a 33.

Keep the mods simple, lighten it heaps and have fun! Good bang for buck. A modded RB sounds better then a modded SR any day of the week!

If I wasn't racing my mx5 and was looking to get into some track day fun, I'd go a 33 due to cheap and bang for buck. Plenty of parts too!

[ARTZ]

R33 gtr

Cheap and reliable

And AWD - see my previous post.

Roy - good info, and pretty much what I suspected. I think an R33 GTST is the go for what we want, so we'll go hunting.

So what's the cooling like on an RB25 - with a dual row alloy radiator will it handle multiple hot laps without having to keep looking at the temp gauge? If it's ok at stock power, does it become a problem at higher power levels? I would expect to put an engine cooler on, do I also need aftermarket gearbox and/or power steering coolers?

Also want to confirm that my rims will fit - I have 18 x 8 ET30 with 66mm centre bore - 2003 350Z Track OEM rims - with 235/40 fronts & 245/40 rears. I'm pretty sure they will fit both the hubs / studs & in the guards. What is the stock rim size / offset for R33 GTST?

pretty good...ASI 52mm dual core alloy radiator can be had for 180$ on ebay new and will do they job just fine, fits nicely too....run 300kw through mine without issue...just keep the stock engine fan don't go electric

The rims will fit fine ,I have 17x7.5 and 8 inch V35 rims +30 with 235/45s all round and oddly enough they do scrub on the inner front guard liner quite alot,.which is easily removed anyway........But my enkeis 17x8 and 9 at +38 with 245/40 and 255/40 race tyres dont scrub at all despite being wider...stock rim size is 16x6.5 +40 i think..

power steering cooler wouldn't go astray, but the 33 gearbox is one of the toughest around try get a good one to start with, keep the oil fresh and invest in a good clutch it should give you many years of trouble free motoring...

people seem to complain about them being front heavy and the engine is a bit of a lump, but the battery is already in the boot and the AC removed will make a big difference, this also allows better airflow cooling to your turbo.....Some decent front brakes would be high on the priority list once you get moving, but the stock ones do ok too start with, just getting some braided lines, decent brake fluid and a master cylinder stopper makes a huge difference.....

[ARTZ]

I'm biased because I have an R33 that I track, but here's a very fast one at Winton:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4Ih_iAWyYM

I think he's a forum member too so he might be able to provide details on his car.

Richo is deadly fast for what is a pretty simple setup with alot of fine tuning and practice from a very commited racer....he also has alot of good videos worth watching.....same car is at WTAC now...believe hes having a few issues though..

[Dale FZ1]

Geoff I agree that on a range of fronts the ECR33 has the makings of a decent club car. Just not the best/fastest by a long shot. Matter of fact it is what I run, so go for it. Roy's comments are valid.

Cooling is something that I've found many people seem to gloss over or ignored when I posted direct questions and sent PMs to various people asking for input. Yep you can keep them cool but it's all down to airflow and making sure that the air is going through your coolers and exiting them (not stalling). Poor ducting and leakage cause as many problems in a modded R33 as any other car. As I learned a bit I have managed to get mine to run without overheating with 310rwkW, but not always was that the case. Engine undertrays, ducts, guides etc that the factory engineers devised were put there for a purpose. Once you start installing oil coolers, PS cooler, and FMIC you have to get on top of what the airflow is doing (or likely to do).

Gearbox cooler would not be something I'd expect to need on one of these things as a club car. If you were cranking 350rwkW and running a 3 hour endure that might be different. But those events are few and far between up this way.

I don't know of anyone running a ECR33 that has gone to the expense of a Holinger or Modena gearbox, but you could expect the results of speed/consistency/reliability to be as expected with a 15k spend in that area. My comments earlier were more to flag the fact they do have a decently strong box but it will protest if you push it hard without thinking too hard.

Check the build thread by sxxricho, he's running at the WTAC comp this weekend. One of the most pressing/important issues that Roy sort of addressed was that of tyres. Yes the ECR has larger wheel arches than the R32. But they are smaller than the BCNR33 in the rear, and noticeably smaller than a 350Z. One of these chassis in 2wd needs as much rubber on the road as possible. As I indicated, they can work the rubber reasonably hard due to the vehicle mass, and weight distribution.

They can definitely be made into a good thing, just depends on your budget and aspirations IMO.

[toppertee]

Thought I'd add my 2 cents.

I've race a mx5 for the last three years, while they handle well, the gear box and motors are crap. The BP motor is a lemon. You can turbo them, but to do it right for the track 15k.

180-200hp NA around the 15k mark which will last 30 hours be for you need a re-build.

Clubman locost 7 type cars, are quick, but if you hit anything, god help you. Most are made with 25mm RHS.

I've gone with a gtst r33, they are cheap. Better motor gear box than the r32. Only 100kg heavier.

It should pull under 60 seconds around lakeside for under 10k, good bang for buck IMO,

Good luck with it, I hope to see a build tread soon.

[GeeDog]

Thanks all - excellent info. When we find a car I'm sure there will be more questions.

I'll post up when we buy something.

[ARTZ]

here you go , ready to rumble, new clutch fresh tuned just needs some decent race tyres...

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/433567-1996-s2-r33-gtst-297rwks/