Gt30 Turbine Housing Alternatives

[M@&k]

That's an interesting point you raise about the smaller turbines Scott. Some time ago was comparing GTX2867 with 0.82 AR and GTX3067 0.63 AR. Supposedly they flow the same (which seems to be supported by Garrett turbine maps on their site), but someone, (I think Lithium?) said that the GTX3067 is a better match and hence more efficient. Trying to find a T3 housing for the GTX28 is a pain too.

Wolverine, all input is welcome. Kind of like the idea of being a test pilot. Would be all worth it if it turns out to be a good combo. Obviously don't want to throw money away, but in this case I feel that the the risk (boost control) is a known, so can take steps to avoid it. At worst, might learn something.

A questions that just struck me, how come boost control in the GT30 0.63 AR seems to be an issue, but not for the GT-RS (2871) which I also thought had a smallish AR? Just because the compressor flows less?

Edited November 8, 2013 by M@&k

[wolverine]

GT-RS is borderline for surge hence the port shrouded housing on the compressor.

I am not sure why there are no boost control issues.

[discopotato03]

I think it depends on which GT30 you look at because the standout seemed to be the GT3071R . The GT2871Rs from Garrett ran plain T04B compressor housings and the 3071R a plain 0.50 AR T04E housing .

Obviously HKS found that surge was an issue and used their own non Garrett port shrouded comp housing . They also specifically used the 52 trim version of the 71mm GT compressor in the GTRS .

Garretts GT3076R of today is literally a HKS spec "GT3037S" without the bell mouthed insert and the HKS turbine housing . Available in 52 and 56 compressor trims .

HKSs version of the GT3071R , called GT2835 Pro S , used non Garrett turbine and compressor housings and the cropped versions of the GT30 turbine .

There is nothing magical in what HKS did , it was about dialling in housings and wheel sizes and trims . If Garrett didn't have suitable housings they had their own made up .

I don't recall anyone saying they had wastegating issues with HKS spec Garrett turbos used in the right applications .

A .

[M@&k]

...

I don't recall anyone saying they had wastegating issues with HKS spec Garrett turbos used in the right applications .

...

Yeah, this is exactly my point. What did HKS do with the GT-RS (and other) housings to avoid boost control issues, when the Garrett GT30 0.63 AR seems to be generally considered a no no even though it should be less restrictive than the GT28...?

Is it simply down to the size of the wastegate port?

[scotty nm35]

The housing flows most exhaust into the turbine and less through the wastegate port, more to do with angles and gas speed than the size of the wastegate hole.

[M@&k]

I've been trying to find some results of people using these housings. Found some comments on Zilvia.net about the ATP T25-EWG-44 housing saying it was crap, which supports comments earlier in this thread.

Link is below for those interested, but be warned that you will have to wade through 24 pages of SR20 babble:

http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/432611-new-garrett-gtx2867r.html

Still looking to see if there is any other info on the Cosworth type IWG housing...

[discopotato03]

The Garrett turbos on the Cosworth Sierras and the sporting evolutions - RS500s were not exactly brilliant things . A lot of them failed and were returned unopened to Garrett .

It's highly probable that the ones on the best racers were a bit more "standard" than most and I know for a fact that many were fiddled yet kept standard dimensions on the bits the scrutineers could measure . Engineering over design was what made the 500s work as well as they did and if you remember what they were racing against pre GTR its not surprising they had the headlines for a short time .

Better off playing with a true GT30 turbine housing of some kind IMO .

A .

[M@&k]

Thanks Disco. After much reading today, I'm starting to agree. My initial excitement over these housings is waning rapidly.

Looks like if I want to try something a bit different, it's best with the 0.63 AR GT30 housing. Then at least if there's trouble with it, can at least swap out for the 0.82 version without having to change the dump again.

Thanks all for the input.

[Joshbigt62r]

What power goal are you after?

[discopotato03]

I've searched heaps for info/results on GTX2867Rs and GTX3067Rs and this is what some of the 2L four banger people said . Read into it what you like ...

They reckon they proved ages ago that the 0.64 AR turbine housing was always the go with GT28XXR turbos and using the optional 0.86 AR one was a backwards step . They reckoned that lag increased with the larger turbine housing and what they gained at the top was trivial . It sounded to me like the larger housing reduced the gas speed through the turbine which then didn't turn the compressor fast enough to make boost when they wanted it .

Now obviously the GTX3067R is a bitzer , and yes if you look at the GT28 0.86 AR and the GT30 0.63 AR turbine maps the flow lines are sort of similar .

To me its logical that if you want a GT30 turbine to spin up like a GT28 one then you probably want to be using a similar AR housing to the GT28 turbine using that same compressor end .

I think most/all GTX3067Rs advertised have the 0.63 housing on them and that's obviously no accident .

You could look around to see if anyone's selling cheaply a 63 or an 82 housing and try that if you buy a 3067R .

A .

[M@&k]

What power goal are you after?

Looking for 260+rwkW. Basically what I'm searching for is the next step up from a GT-RS. The GTX3067 in 0.63 AR (as per Disco's advice) seems to be the next logical step up, and hoping it won't give away too much response from the 2871-52T of the GT-RS given the newer tech and slightly smaller dia GTX wheel.

Another idea I was kicking around was to try and replicate the HKS 2835 Pro S:

• Use a 3071-WG CHRA (the cropped GT30 turbine), but replace the compressor with GTX67
• Get the ATP T25-EWG-44 turbine housing in T3 footprint - it's based on GT30 housing and available to suit cropped turbine.
• + external wastegate etc.

But it seems like too much of a gamble given the effort that would be involved. Not to mention the negative feedback generally surrounding these components.

Anyway, it sounds like the way forward is to get the 0.63 AR housing and enlarge the wastegate port. Thanks everyone for their input.

Cheers,

Mark.

[skylinecouple]

Hi Mark, regardless of which turbo you go with consider this, the moment you go away from a standard turbo there is going to be fabrication and parts galore. If you go with a turbo only slightly larger than the standard turbo you will be disappointed with the power. In a 1400kg car 260rwks is the least number I'd go for. I just can't see that turbo (3067) making the numbers. As somebody said before, go with the Hypergear turbo. I have the Garrett 3071 & .82 rear housing and have no lag. It isn't so much the turbine housing that creates lag but a combination of the compressor size and turbine size.

My 3071 has the uncropped turbine wheel by the way. If it were me I would demand a minimum 260kws as previously stated due to the amount of work you have to fit a foreign turbo. So look for a turbo that will do the job without lag.

There are many drift cars out there running 3076 .82 turbos by the way and don't seem to have lag issues. Its all in the tuning.

[RBrennan25]

Looking for 260+rwkW. Basically what I'm searching for is the next step up from a GT-RS. The GTX3067 in 0.63 AR (as per Disco's advice) seems to be the next logical step up, and hoping it won't give away too much response from the 2871-52T of the GT-RS given the newer tech and slightly smaller dia GTX wheel.

So basically what you'd want is a HTA 2871? Do a google search. It has the rear housing from a gt28 so no lag but it has the larger compressor housing from the gt30 turbos and still flows 52lbs/min which is I'm not wrong is what the HKS 3037 flows, so the turbo is good for 300rwkw plus with minimal lag. If that's not the best of both worlds what is?

http://www.ringer-racing.com/product.sc;jsessionid=E8FB8C5A2E9EC5A9834966098B6C2AC5.m1plqscsfapp06?productId=296&categoryId=180

Take a look, should give you exactly what you're after

[RBrennan25]

Just my 2c worth because that's the exact turbo I'm getting for the same reason, minimal lag but no top end sacrifice. I'm aiming for around 300rwkw from mine though, should get pretty close

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

might be off topic to some, but if you're chasing that power goal, why not go a Hypergear turbo by Stao?

[discopotato03]

So basically what you'd want is a HTA 2871? Do a google search. It has the rear housing from a gt28 so no lag but it has the larger compressor housing from the gt30 turbos and still flows 52lbs/min which is I'm not wrong is what the HKS 3037 flows, so the turbo is good for 300rwkw plus with minimal lag. If that's not the best of both worlds what is?

http://www.ringer-racing.com/product.sc;jsessionid=E8FB8C5A2E9EC5A9834966098B6C2AC5.m1plqscsfapp06?productId=296&categoryId=180

Take a look, should give you exactly what you're after

Actually that compressor housing is the old truck style T04B one and the only GT30 turbo I know of that uses a similar kind of thing is the GTX3067R - only its an updated port shrouded one .

I think it's debatable that you'd reliably get any single GT28 turbine fitted turbo to 300 RWKW - without an external gate anyway .

I'd say the whole reason Garrett stuck a GT30IW hotside on the 3067R was to run the X67 compressor out without choking the exhaust side . BTW on their site they rate the 2867R at 480 Hp and the 3067R at 500 Hp .

Strangely enough they quote the full turbine size GT3071R as 460 Hp and the cropped one as 480 . Something screwy about those 3071Rs but interesting that they quote the cropped one as the same power as the GTX3067R , note this is the same cartridge used in the HKS GT2835 Pro S turbo .

A .

[RBrennan25]

Actually that compressor housing is the old truck style T04B one and the only GT30 turbo I know of that uses a similar kind of thing is the GTX3067R - only its an updated port shrouded one .

I think it's debatable that you'd reliably get any single GT28 turbine fitted turbo to 300 RWKW - without an external gate anyway .

I'd say the whole reason Garrett stuck a GT30IW hotside on the 3067R was to run the X67 compressor out without choking the exhaust side . BTW on their site they rate the 2867R at 480 Hp and the 3067R at 500 Hp .

Strangely enough they quote the full turbine size GT3071R as 460 Hp and the cropped one as 480 . Something screwy about those 3071Rs but interesting that they quote the cropped one as the same power as the GTX3067R , note this is the same cartridge used in the HKS GT2835 Pro S turbo .

A .

Well I'll let you know mate, I'll have mine done by about Feb next year. But with the same set up as mine with the HKS 3037 one of the guys on here had 330rwkw. And it's the same flow rate so it should go close

[M@&k]

Don't know too much about the HTA turbos to be honest. Might need to look into that. Also agree that Hypergear has been getting some great results from his SS1PU turbos. I guess I've been looking at Garrett because there is more data available. Just irritates me I can't find something between the two standard turbine ARs. If only the HKS Pro S was available at a realistic price, it would be a done deal.

Also have been pulling together some info from the dyno results thread comparing some of the more common IWG turbo options. Will probably post in new thread when I get my sht together.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

You mean Honeywell turbos? lol

just go for something that suits your goals/requirements.. no need to be a brand wh0re and get a Honeywell turbo.

Don't know how true this is, but it's worth a read:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1936851

[steve200b]

FYI I have a gtx3076r on a 25 with a .82 iwg rear and I am having boost spike issues when running 21psi. I also have a eboost street but unable to keep it from spiking over 20psi. It's fine when running 15psi