Electronic Internal Wastegates

[Sub Boy32]

I see a couple of OE turbos now coming out with electronic wastegates, how long before we see these coming out for aftermarket turbos?

I would think these might be an advantage to:

Eliminate boost creep.

Holding them shut during high back pressure (problem with my turbo)

Boost tuning to maximise drivability

Ability to run multiple boost levels

Thoughts?

[luke gtr]

they have their ups and downs.

have seen some fail.

eg, codes and such, have to replace turbo, not just actuator.

would be good on smaller turbos that arnt pushed extremely hard.

but the units that get alot of heat, I dare say, would affect the plastics and electronics.

[White GTS-T]

They are becoming increasingly commonplace, in internal, external and variable vane/geometry turbos. Later model diesels are even using electronically controlled vacuum operated actuators.

[Blackkers]

cost aside. a pneumatic actuator with an electronic controller elsewhere (in the cabin) could work well if someone designed one

[ARTZ]

They are becoming increasingly commonplace, in internal, external and variable vane/geometry turbos. Later model diesels are even using electronically controlled vacuum operated actuators.

isn't that the same as what most of us with a boost controller run?

[scotty nm35]

Nothing beats a pressure actuated diaphragm and spring, it is a simple and robust design that will outlast any electronic stepper motor or similar.

The only hassle with current actuators is there is usually no way of plumbing boost pressure into the other end, to help the spring hold the wastegate shut. This is why external gates are so much better atm.

[White GTS-T]

isn't that the same as what most of us with a boost controller run?

No. These are vacuum actuated, not pressure actuated.

[scotty nm35]

Same shit different bucket.

[C4a0s]

actually these electronically controlled acutators...have been used for power valves aka exhaust bypass and most of them fail within 6 mths... electronics and heat dont mix very well... as such i dont expect these to last either. best is still mechanical ones with simple spring and using vacuum IMO.

[Rolls]

If they used a huge pushrod to separate the electronics to the valve I don't see why it would fail due to heat etc, anyone got some diagrams and further reading about them?

[C4a0s]

If they used a huge pushrod to separate the electronics to the valve I don't see why it would fail due to heat etc, anyone got some diagrams and further reading about them?

yes but they would also need to heat shield the electronics as well...then it may be fine

but if its somewhere around the engine bay... wouldnt it still get heat soaked?

[NYTSKY]

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/f1s-hybrid-turbos-are-awesome-and-you-want-one-in-you-1464497196

[Rolls]

yes but they would also need to heat shield the electronics as well...then it may be fine

but if its somewhere around the engine bay... wouldnt it still get heat soaked?

There is lots of electronics in the engine bay, all you need is the actuator anyway, then you can put the actual controller in the cabin like a boost controller.

[Sub Boy32]

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/f1s-hybrid-turbos-are-awesome-and-you-want-one-in-you-1464497196

Woo! That is interesting! F1 tech!

[scotty nm35]

^^ Pre-spooled turbo using a 3 phase RC helicopter motor. I thought of that 5 years ago, even let Tao know.

Most of my ideas and designs get made eventually, even if i don't have the time and coin to complete them. Hopefully it flows through to the common people, because I want one.

[Kinkstaah]

Nothing beats a pressure actuated diaphragm and spring, it is a simple and robust design that will outlast any electronic stepper motor or similar.

The only hassle with current actuators is there is usually no way of plumbing boost pressure into the other end, to help the spring hold the wastegate shut. This is why external gates are so much better atm.

Actually due to googling IWG's to try and sort my own boost drop issue I ran into quite a few dual port IWG's that do this, but ended up not getting one as I didn't see how it'd help with my (assumed) backpressure problem as the spring inside them all was quite weak.

Would be good for boost control in general though, but I'd imagine most people either don't have backpressure problems or gravitate to just using the tried and true method of EWG's

[scotty nm35]

The spring inside them doesn't have to be strong, as the boost pressure helps hold it shut. I haven't tried one (dual port internal gate actuator) but it should work better than an ewg setup without the top port being used.

[C4a0s]

There is lots of electronics in the engine bay, all you need is the actuator anyway, then you can put the actual controller in the cabin like a boost controller.

yup that would work.

[GH05T]

wouldnt you need some sort of pitch controll or almost constantly venting valve when it plays generator so your not pumping air into a glosed throttle body? when that opens even a little bit the revs would spike up as you already have constant preasure in the intake, more so than supercharger, seems like that would play some odd games, ok in an f1 car but stop start traffic?

[Kinkstaah]

The spring inside them doesn't have to be strong, as the boost pressure helps hold it shut. I haven't tried one (dual port internal gate actuator) but it should work better than an ewg setup without the top port being used.

I could see it as control, but if I had say 30 psi on either side of the spring it'd be all well and good.. until back pressure pushes the flap opens and it pulls on the 7psi spring, I could never really find out what would happen then.. I assumed with 30psi on both sides the backpressure would act as though there's a 7psi spring in it.

My laymans thoughts were, if the flap pushed by backpressure can open a 20psi spring with the boost line disconnected (i.e... free boosting with no vac line connected at all I make 17-18psi) I figured this would still occur with a dual port.

Unless I only connected one port, and had 0 psi opening the flap, 30 psi holding it shut, AND spring pressure vs backpressure, but that just didn't seem like a great way to control boost vs just buying a single port actuator head with a 30 psi spring in it.