Formula One 2014

[Roy]

DJ, do a search. McLaren made quite a sizable loss last year when they had Vodafone and won GPs. I think they came 2nd in the WDC as well...and they still lost something like 20million

[wolverine]

How much did Bernie make?

[sh@un]

20 squillion

[Roy]

The maiden F1 test in a V10 car Vettel reminisced about at the AUTOSPORT Awards came in a BMW-powered Williamsin September 2005.

The outing was a reward for his utter domination of the previous year's German Formula BMW championship.

The then-18-year-old's running was delayed after Nico Rosberg - then Williams's test driver - had an engine failure in the car in the morning.

But Vettel still managed 25 laps, ending up 3.4 seconds off the pace of race driver Mark Webber.

Wouldnt it been wonderful ifWebz enjoyed that advantageat RBR

[PN-Mad]

It's a bit like Dans test with RBR.

I think it is standard to fuel and set the car up to a point where it will never be competitive with the "race drivers" time. It would be pretty poor form to stick someone in and blast away a time to piss off your contracted driver. The team can garner all the results it wants with a slower car. The media, however, seem to love mentioning the times.

[ctjet]

There was an absolutely brilliant article about Ron with many great stories

Edited December 2, 2013 by ctjet

[tweety bird]

There was an absolutely brilliant article about Ron with many great stories

where?

[djr81]

DJ, do a search. McLaren made quite a sizable loss last year when they had Vodafone and won GPs. I think they came 2nd in the WDC as well...and they still lost something like 20million

Had a look:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/oct/03/mclaren-f1-team-group-loss-2012

McLaren Group made a £2.5m pre-tax loss last year (so 2012) compared with a pre-tax profit of £19.7m in 2011, according to documents filed at Companies House.

Hate to think what it would be for this year or next, come to that. And if McLaren are losing money then so must nearly everyone else.

[PRO_32]

Yeah but they've been investing massively in new parts of the business (road cars, electronics etc) plus the cost of the 2014 rule changes at a time when they've lost they're major partner in MB (whilst they've been supplying engines I doubt there's been any other support financially). So an operating loss is not to surprising and maybe Honda is gonna fill the MB Vodafone void. According to that article I wouldn't be surprised in another couple of years the road cars will be profitable enough to keep it all long term viable.

But the thing they never seem to mention is that the team is nearly 50% Middle East owned.

[djr81]

Yeah but they've been investing massively in new parts of the business (road cars, electronics etc) plus the cost of the 2014 rule changes at a time when they've lost they're major partner in MB (whilst they've been supplying engines I doubt there's been any other support financially). So an operating loss is not to surprising and maybe Honda is gonna fill the MB Vodafone void. According to that article I wouldn't be surprised in another couple of years the road cars will be profitable enough to keep it all long term viable.

But the thing they never seem to mention is that the team is nearly 50% Middle East owned.

The point is/was that the racing business lost £6m in 2012. A year in which they actually won races. So this year will be worse, as will next year when they have a completely different set of rules to get around and no Vodafone, no MB money and less coming in from their finish in the constructors championship.

You are right in saying that unless there is manufacturers money propping the thing up (or the owner has other companies eg Red Bull) that there isnt enough money coming in to allow the teams to properly compete. So hopefully Honda have some cash to put about.

Making road cars seldom makes money - look at Lotus as an example. Ferrari are the only ones who have managed it but then again people buy them for the name and the noise and not much else.

McLaren have been part middle east owned for decades. TAG is middle eastern and funded the Porsche motors way back when. McLAren poached them from Williams and they later became shareholders.

Anyway this year has been their shttest car since 1995.

[ctjet]

where?

http://www.autoevolution.com/newstag/Ron+Dennis/

heres a few to kick you off

[PRO_32]

Don't get me wrong DJ I agree it's getting so bad now the relatively successful teams are struggling, that's why I don't complain when teams like lotus take Maldonado on for money I mean people blaming lotus for the dick move but what else can they do?

I guess what I meant was I do believe mclaren cars have the potential to turn a profit and if it does it doesn't matter if the racing operation loses money.

The teams aero departments are way to powerful with to much influence over the formula. Current gen f1 cars make great time attack cars but shitty race cars. ffs the aero problem has caused shit boring races so the solution they come up with, complicate the aero by adding stally rear wings on a button yay. We need more power, mech grip>aero downforce and then drivers will become more of a commodity again with wheel to wheel racing to follow. By then Bernie will be gone too and they will bring media rights and coverage into this decade and have YouTube channels, live streams for races and all sorts of new content ideas that can actually be accessed by people outside the uk and Germany.

[Roy]

And you know what I think is wonderful about Williams and in particular Sir Frank? He brings new sponsors into F1. He refuses to poach sponsors off other teams. The reverse cant be said when sponsors are often attracted by other F1 teams with various dealings.

Williams is a race team...McLaren did well to get newey when they did as they were in the wilderness and thankfully had tobacco money to recover from being clueless with those Pug engines etc.

Williams have had various engineering tie ups with various road car manufacturers and lower formula teams. I recall part of the reason they wiped the touring car side of the business as they said it detracted from the main focus F1. I understand their technology dept is profitable... I did read an article about McLaren and how they have gone as an F1 team when they started branching out doing other things. How long has it been since they have won a constructors?

[tweety bird]

The hulk is back with the force for next year.

[sh@un]

How long has it been since they have won a constructors?

15 years

16 for Williams

[Roy]

Thats the point...talking how McLaren are amazing...look at their funding, their drivers, their engine supplier etc ...for how many years were they effectively the Mercedes factory team.....yet constructors championships are as thin on the ground as Williams.

[sh@un]

well there's only one team with more than either...

[wolverine]

Hulk going to do another waiting year.

He needs to find a sugar daddy next time he is in Monaco....

[djr81]

He needs the FIA to wake up and make being a midget not the most important fkn measure of a drivers worth.

[PRO_32]

He needs the FIA to wake up and make being a midget not the most important fkn measure of a drivers worth.

Very hard to do though.