Formula One 2014

[Roy]

Talk is RBR are the best on the long runs for pace. But who knows what people are doing for engine power. Talk was RBR are losing 0.8sec down the straights!

[MatthewT85]

thats crazy, they must be making a shitload of time in the corners then!!!

soooo i dont really trust the site but ninemsn says RBR are having the same sensor issues on dans car again... where the data doesnt match their readings....

anyone seen anymore evidence of this on any other sites?

[tweety bird]

Talk is RBR are the best on the long runs for pace. But who knows what people are doing for engine power. Talk was RBR are losing 0.8sec down the straights!

Wow!

It's going to be an interesting weekend.

[hrd-hr30]

Half expect RBR are willing to fall on the sword early and bring the BS out in the open. I hear what you are saying about others obeying...but for all we know RBR may have been the worst example being asked to forfeit 4% power vs lesser amounts for others cars.

It matters little, the fact that many cars were all winding back performance, likely to all differing levels then why even have qualifying or practice sessions. Just have a raffle and fit random flow meters to the cars and watch them jockey for position in a race as the FIA tell them to slow down or allow them to speed up all on different levels ...retarded.

I am no fan of RBR...but good on them for busing balls over this now and hopefully we will avoid the farce of inaccurate instruments hurting a percentage of th efields performance over a race weekend, because....lotter dip of erroneous sensors says so

maybe you missed the part about them applying offsets to individual sensors make mass flow the same for everyone? RBR just want it to match their own data, not everyone else's flow meter. The other "teams have accepted that when they are alerted to the possibility the sensor could exceed the 100kg per hour rate at peak flow, irrespective of what their own data says, they have to peg back their rate slightly to ensure there is no breach of the rules."

if it was really a case of a lottery of sensors deciding who is fast, every team would be up in arms about it. But I haven't seen any team support RBR's position. I've only heard teams speak out against RBR or for the FIA.

Edited March 28, 2014 by hrd-hr30

[tweety bird]

errrr..

[tweety bird]

lots of pics here.

http://imgur.com/a/gYOP3

[tweety bird]

not f1 but it's very cool!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdJ5nHSwZrc#t=101

also why can't f1 cars sound like that?

[Floyd Westwood]

lots of pics here.

http://imgur.com/a/gYOP3

.

The carbon work is beautiful.

[tweety bird]

pasta's engine going bang.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v98-XYuo1vI

[tweety bird]

.

The carbon work is beautiful.

isn't it ever.

[hrd-hr30]

Informative article on the subject http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2014/03/fuel-sensors-not-good-enough-for-f1-says-horner-as-fia-go-public-to-defend-themselves/

Fuel sensors not good enough for F1, says Horner as FIA go public to defend themselves

Posted on March 28, 2014

The war of words over Daniel Ricciardo’s disqualification in Australia went up a level today as Red Bull team boss Christian Horner said that the fuel flow sensors, which the FIA has specified and which were at issue in Australia, are not good enough for F1.

Horner confirmed that they and another Renault powered team had suffered a further sensor error during today’s free practice session. Asked whether he felt that the sensors were good enough for F1 he said,

“With where it’s at at the moment I would have to say no. We need to work with the FIA to find a better solution because there is so much hanging on it. At this level, it’s not good enough.”

L to R - Lom (left); Bonciani (FIA comms); Whiting

Meanwhile the FIA, clearly feeling that it’s authority is being challenged, took the step of hosting a briefing with Fabrice Lom, the former Renault F1 engineer who is now responsible for regulating the power units in F1. Fuel flow sensors are part of his remit. The FIA’s Charlie Whiting who oversees all technical matters also spoke.

Asked is he was satisfied with the performance of the sensors so far, Lom said, “I’m an unsatisfied person by definition, that is how you make progress. But with this sensor we do a better job than without, better than any other we know about.”

Lom pointed out that the accuracy of these Gill sensors which weigh 300g and are smaller than a mobile telephone is remarkable compared to large bench-top machines which do the same job in a static environment.

The nub of the problem, Whiting observed, is that the rules state that if there is a problem with a sensor teams have to use a back up solution which has been calibrated against a known sensor. Red Bull did not do this, whatever the accuracy they may claim for their own system, it had not been calibrated against a known sensor in a controlled environment. This will be central to the FIA’s case at appeal.

Horner said that the fuel rail, which they used to measure the flow in the race, had been sealed after the race, taken back to Renault’s base in Paris and tested with observers present and had given the same reading as in the race in Melbourne. This will form the nub of their case at the appeal; that they did not break the rules of 100kg/hour at any time in the race.

Experts and engineers here in Kuala Lumpur can see both sides of the argument. Red Bull may turn out to be right, their measurements may turn out to be accurate, but they didn’t follow due process, according to the FIA.

As the FIA is responsible for sporting fairness, “Our role is fair regulation” as Lom put it, it seeks to create and enforce rules which can apply fairly to all 11 teams, not individual exceptions, they feel that they have a strong case and the other teams hope that the FIA prevails otherwise rule enforcement could get like the Wild West.

FIA briefing notes, from Fabrice Lom

Why is there a fuel flow limit?
Because with a turbo engine you have to limit the power otherwise you would have drivers using over 1,000hp at times, while others were fuel saving, the speed differential would be enormous and dangerous. Additionally the message from the new hybrid F1 rules is efficiency, 35% more performance from a drop of fuel than the old V8s. It’s not about monster power for short bursts.

How are the sensors calibrated?
The FIA takes steps to ensure that the sensors are accurate and the same for all teams. Team X gives its sensors and a sample of it’s fuel to the FIA and they contract a company called Calibra to calibrate the sensors to the fuel, by placing them in series and checking each against a known reference sensor. This is carried out in various conditions and at five different temperatures.

During the race weekend the teams tell the FIA which sensor they are using. Each sensor is bought and owned by the team, at a cost of £4,500 each and is regulated by the FIA.

Where does the fuel flow sensor sit?
Inside the fuel cell, in the low pressure area.

What is the limit the FIA will accept for a car going over the 100kg/hour limit before they act against the team?
If a car goes 1% over the 100kg/limit for 10 seconds in any given lap, they are warned by the FIA and asked to make an offset or switch to a back up. This adds up to 3 grammes of fuel per lap above the limit, which is the cut off for intervention (NB The FIA contends that the Red Bull sensor was not faulty and had not broken on Ricciardo’s car in Australia)

What happens if a car hits that limit?
If the FIA feels that a sensor is drifting in its reading (which it contends is very obvious) it reverts to the back up, which has been planned for and the back up has been calibrated against an official sensor. They cannot accept an alternative system for measurement because it has not been calibrated against a known sensor.

Article 5.10 of the technical regulations says that the fuel can only be measured by a homologated sensor and there is only one sensor, which is made by Gill Sensors.

How long do sensors last?
They need to be recalibrated after 100 hours and their life is 400 hours. It should be theoretically possible to do the F1 season on two sensors.

[Roy]

Its a joke. No doubt Dan having another new meter installed yeserday could be polotics...but...

"We know Toro Rosso had two failures this morning. Sergio Perez's sensor failed for the entirety of the race and others were given other readings."

Right or wrong re process in Melb...go RBR for bashing FIA over the head over this cluster fark. All the F1 teams do a rather stellar job getting 15 cars to the finish line in Melb and an FIA part is the root of stupidity and performance differentiators.

[Roy]

This comes despite Red Bull estimating the sensor it had on its car in Melbourne was fluctuating by up to two per cent - which had a theoretical implication on laptime of three quarters of a second.

Fabrice Lom, who is head of the FIA's powertrain department, said: "We accept plus or minus 0.5 per cent [accuracy].

Even at 0.5% thats still 0.185sec a lap from a silly meter error...oh and thats on the low side...if another car has a meter reading +.5% then they get 3/10 sec on you per lap.

Retarded situation for F1 to be in

...and for that matter Lotus Seems losing Eric and other engineering staff is hurting the teams ability to stay focussed and just resolve issues strategically...rather they seem to be in a rather confused state and not getting any better GUTTED

Oh well, Romain to McLaren next year

[djr81]

Bit like chook lotto, really. You can be damn sure if it was Ferrari that had been affected the FIA would already have fixed it in their favour. Like they always have. Actually that is probably the only way it will get sorted - Kimi or Fernando get screwed by it. There again they are so off the pace no one would ever know.

As case of too much regulation, too much intervention and too much faith in equipment that is clearly on its limit of performance. There again it is prbably Adrian Neweys packaging that makes it hard. Guessing it is more complicated than ten pipe diameters upstream and four down.

Anyway Homo ftw in Malaysia? Odds look good for an MB 1 2 3 4. Homo, Rosberg, Magnussen, Button....

[89CAL]

Bit like chook lotto, really. You can be damn sure if it was Ferrari that had been affected the FIA would already have fixed it in their favour. Like they always have. Actually that is probably the only way it will get sorted - Kimi or Fernando get screwed by it. There again they are so off the pace no one would ever know.

As case of too much regulation, too much intervention and too much faith in equipment that is clearly on its limit of performance. There again it is prbably Adrian Neweys packaging that makes it hard. Guessing it is more complicated than ten pipe diameters upstream and four down.

Anyway Homo ftw in Malaysia? Odds look good for an MB 1 2 3 4. Homo, Rosberg, Magnussen, Button....

Do you mean the Ferrari's are so far off the pace? Might want to look at Malaysia practice. I think it was Ferrari reporting they had good race pace and so far pretty happy with the car

On the other hand mercedes reporting elevated tyre wear on longer runs and a little uncertainty over the engine. Im not saying write them off but it looks a bit less likely that they will walk away with it this weekend

[Aggroman]

Natalie Pinkham is a tidy bird. Much better than the chick from channel 10

[89CAL]

I tried watching a stream of FP3, had to watch at low quality and kep skipping every so often. Pretty annoying...... Really wish we had sky sports f1

[chus13]

I tried watching a stream of FP3, had to watch at low quality and kep skipping every so often. Pretty annoying...... Really wish we had sky sports f1

Where did you find that? I was looking for a stream before and couldn't find anything.

[89CAL]

I just googled it, was pretty shit lol

http://www.vipboxoc.co/sports/formula-1.html

I dunno if it was my connection or the traffic on the site or what, my girlfriend was watching something on demand on the t-box downstairs so would have been chewing a bit of internets

[mattie4270]

Multi 21