Formula One 2014

[Roy]

Its rare a new driver joins a team, new engineers etc and matches a good-great team mate. For years we have seen Kimi struggle with how he needs the car. When its to his liking he is mega. But needs the feeling of the car. Something it took a while to achieve at Lotus too.

He is priving to be more Button and a Trulli and less Hamo, Alonso who can drive around any problem.

The back half of the year will be more telling once the car has had time to be developed and tweaked for him. The brake by wire has certainly removed some intimacy from the feeling a driver gets.

[89CAL]

Wow an argument and someone else is wrong. Amazing

You know it's ok to be wrong once in a while. Accept that things aren't always as black and white as they appear. Driving style is not something easily changed and considering Alonso has been at Ferrari for over 5 years now it's hardly surprising the car suits him more

[hrd-hr30]

what argument? I see a discussion with a couple of different points of veiw... so I'm not sure how you work out who's right and wrong, but the results speak for themselves.

Alonso's years at Ferrari don't count for much when the entire chassis and driveline are completely new this season. It's not like they've spent the last 5 years tuning this car to his liking. They both started at square one this season. Can't get a fairer basis for comparison than that. And like it or lump it, drivers will always be compared to their team-mate, it's the best yardstick you've got. It's always been that way.

Kimi is one of the most experienced drivers in the field, an ex world champ, and used to be touted as one of the most naturally gifted guys on the grid. He used to be fast in whatever he put his arse into. That's not the case anymore. And Ferrari certainly expected him to be hassling Alonso - that was why they brought him in.

Even RBR said they were prepared to give Dan 4 or 5 races to get on the pace. 8 races is more than enough to form an opinion I reckon.

My prediction is that Kimi fans will have to continue making excuses for the rest of this season... and next. If Ferrari don't dump him again!

Edited June 24, 2014 by hrd-hr30

[mad082]

I think Kimi is suffering from the same issues as Vettel. Their driving style simply doesn't suit the current reg cars. That plays a big part in how well they can drive the car. Vettel especially is used to a car with uber downforce (compared to dan who came from a car with less downforce and grip), so his ability to just turn it in at high speed and just rely on the car to grip and go just isn't helping. He's having to drastically alter his style. Just look at how much the cars move around this year. They're using more opposite lock in the dry than they used to use in the wet. But having said all that, kimi certainly isn't getting hosed by Alonso everytime. Yes he's getting beaten, but on about half of the races he's only been a place or 2 behind.

As for rbr doing so well in the constructors championship, Dan has won a race and been at the pointy end all season. And when Vettel has actually finished he's been up there too (Dan's had 3 podiums, seb has had 2). Williams is the only other team (other than mercedes obviously) to have more than 1 podium, and they only have 2. For a team severely lacking straight line speed, rbr are doing pretty bloody well.

[MatthewT85]

I think Kimi is suffering from the same issues as Vettel. Their driving style simply doesn't suit the current reg cars. That plays a big part in how well they can drive the car. Vettel especially is used to a car with uber downforce (compared to dan who came from a car with less downforce and grip), so his ability to just turn it in at high speed and just rely on the car to grip and go just isn't helping. He's having to drastically alter his style. Just look at how much the cars move around this year. They're using more opposite lock in the dry than they used to use in the wet. But having said all that, kimi certainly isn't getting hosed by Alonso everytime. Yes he's getting beaten, but on about half of the races he's only been a place or 2 behind.

As for rbr doing so well in the constructors championship, Dan has won a race and been at the pointy end all season. And when Vettel has actually finished he's been up there too (Dan's had 3 podiums, seb has had 2). Williams is the only other team (other than mercedes obviously) to have more than 1 podium, and they only have 2. For a team severely lacking straight line speed, rbr are doing pretty bloody well.

do you mean mclaren has more than one? didnt button and magnussen finish on the podium in melb, after dans dq.

and massa hasnt had a podium and that was bottas' first

[mad082]

Yeah my bad. Meant to say mclaren, not Williams.

[Roy]

The other thing to consider is like Vettel Kimi has had the bulk of car problems at Ferrari. No doubt he isnt where he wants to be but not sure after being hit by McLarens, car faults week in week out....I think I need a cleaner bucnh of races to actually guage how much behind Kimi is.

Not to make excuses for the guy, but to actually try to read the relative performance differences between the two. One think Kimi has seemed to struggle with, even alongside Romain is his qualifying. No doubt in the past when he could rag on the car he was rather epic. These days where you have to be a car whisperer and you dirve in a performance window I think guys like Kimi will lose out to the guys who are given a quick car and told to drive it at 9.8/10s every lap.

[hrd-hr30]

I think Kimi is suffering from the same issues as Vettel. Their driving style simply doesn't suit the current reg cars. That plays a big part in how well they can drive the car. Vettel especially is used to a car with uber downforce (compared to dan who came from a car with less downforce and grip), so his ability to just turn it in at high speed and just rely on the car to grip and go just isn't helping. He's having to drastically alter his style. Just look at how much the cars move around this year. They're using more opposite lock in the dry than they used to use in the wet.

Kimi's rallying experience should stand him in good stead then. A Finn who isn't comfortable with a car moving around under him, should be ashamed of himself - he really must be past his best!

But having said all that, kimi certainly isn't getting hosed by Alonso everytime. Yes he's getting beaten, but on about half of the races he's only been a place or 2 behind.

2 is not about half of 8...

Edited June 24, 2014 by hrd-hr30

[hrd-hr30]

Not to make excuses for the guy, but to actually try to read the relative performance differences between the two. One think Kimi has seemed to struggle with, even alongside Romain is his qualifying. No doubt in the past when he could rag on the car he was rather epic. These days where you have to be a car whisperer and you dirve in a performance window I think guys like Kimi will lose out to the guys who are given a quick car and told to drive it at 9.8/10s every lap.

The last couple of years the drivers were certainly complaining they had to manage thier tyres over the course of a qualy lap otherwise they could go off before you finished a single lap, but this years tyres are 10x more robust and that just isn't a problem. In Qualy they are ragging on the cars more than they have since Pirelli came into F1 - the cars have less downforce than ever in the modern era and they have to throw them around in qualifying and the races to an extent, as mad082 said. They even get an extra set of tyres to burn up in Q3! I didn't see many guys going 9.8/10ths in qualy at Spielberg - there were lockups, spins, and people running off the track all over the place!

And as you say, Kimi struggled in qualy in the Lotus as well, but his strength was managing the tyres during the race driving to a performance window, particularly on the hottest tracks where the Lotus was the best car at being gentle on the Failrellis of degredation.

Edited June 24, 2014 by hrd-hr30

[89CAL]

In other news. Villeneuve must be stupid saying Red Bull have given up on Vettel and are now focusing on Dan

If you've had a driver bring you 4 world titles, you don't abandon him when he has a rough start to the season

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/3213/9359896/Vettel-should-go-to-Ferrari-Villeneuve

[billywhiz]

I can't believe the so called best driver(s) in the world can say a car isn't suited to their style, the world's best should be able to adapt. Doesn't compare well to the likes of Brabham, Clarke, Moss etc does it.

[89CAL]

I think its not so much they can't adapt, its just they haven't been able to do it as quick as guys coming from worse cars or categories that are used to the cars sliding around. The gaps are less than a Second, probably less than half a second really. If you or me jumped in the car we would probably be 3 seconds slower

Without being in the situation there is no real perspective on how hard/long it takes to adapt to the new style cars.

Back in the day there was alot less aero, so the cars I dare say would have been more predictable even though they were all over the place. With aero you have to remember that air going over the car can make the thing very unpredictable/touchy

Also, I don't think there were any testing restrictions in the era you are talking about so the guys were able to bolt something on there car then go out and try it. At the moment, if the car is not right then you realistically only have half of Friday to try new things before starting race Sims and setup for qually etc

[dezz]

If you or me jumped in the car we would probably be 3 seconds slower

Someone rates themselves VERY highly. I guarantee you WOULD NOT be anywhere near within 3 seconds of their times.

[Aggroman]

yeah add 45 to a min AT LEAST

[89CAL]

Someone rates themselves VERY highly. I guarantee you WOULD NOT be anywhere near within 3 seconds of their times.

Jeze, it was just a number I picked out of the blue.

Didn't excatly sit down and think about how much slower than the drivers I would be

[ctjet]

Bernie is teasing me

My hopes and dreams of never having to sit through another Monza grand prix may finally become reality

Somebody had to go to make room for Sochi

[djr81]

Why the hate for Monza?

[dezz]

Probably because it's in Italy...

[89CAL]

Lol

Caterham sold, still racing as Caterham but. Not sure if the name will change next year

[ctjet]

Why the hate for Monza?

place needs to go, or be revamped like hockenheim

but not by Tilke, sweet jeebus not Tilke

would much prefer they brought a track like Estoril back