M35 Ecu Upgrade Options

[DaveM35]

Hi all,

Sorry I know this stuff has been covered a hundred million times on here, but no matter how many pages I read through I can't find enough of what I want to know, so ill just ask here.

I've got a gtx3071r on the way so I need to get my computer sorted. Please any of you guys with actual experience with different ecu options let me know what you think.

I was just going to get EMU + harness and see how far that gets me for a start. But then I was reading about limitations and I thought...should I try get a Nismo as a base ecu...might be impossible to find by now anyway, will it make it so much better?

What I've found is a lot of guys talking about how one option is better than another but not necessarily why it's so much better. So: will I lose all variable cam action with EMU or will I just not be able to control it? As long as it works to help performance I don't care about no control...just don't want to loose it. Also can anyone tell me like maybe in a list form, what the hks f-con can do better than emanage on our engines specifically. I'm not worried about cost differences as much as performance difference, and the availability of parts.

Thanks very much for any help and sorry for all the crap I just wrote.

Cheers

[Jetwreck]

I've gone with the adaptronic now.....there's a couple if little bugs still to sort on mine but I have found it better, safer and more stable than the emu.

Btw With that turbo you do know that there is quite a few other induction mods you need to do don't you?

Edited November 30, 2013 by Jetwreck

[scotty nm35]

Dave, the EMU is a budget tuning solution, half what a Fcon or Adaptronic would cost. That doesn't mean it isn't good though, I ran over 300kw on one, but the tune isn't set, the stock ecu still has control of the entire engine. Timing and fuel can be added or taken from the factory map but the ecu still adjusts everything as per factory. This has many benefits but most tuners refuse to work with them because they can't guarantee the timing and fuel will remain consistent.

The Fcon is a standalone ecu, it has set maps that don't change, hence it is safer at high power. The stock ecu remains to run the throttle and cams, you will have little adjustment of them.

The Adaptronic is in a similar position, it needs the stock ecu to control the throttle and cams, there is further testing to be done with cable throttle and cam control which we are hoping will be sorted soon to allow full engine control, but I am not entirely confident it will be perfect option.

The Haltech 350z plugin, the latest version, is probably the best bet we have to get full standalone control, but no-one has attempted it yet. Major wiring headaches are on the way as this is the path I am probably heading once the manual box goes in.

The Link G4 extreme is similar to the Haltech, but you would need to run the electronic throttle add-on.

[DaveM35]

Thanks Craig & Scotty,

There's a lot of helpful info just there, Scott you covered lots of what I was thinking it was like. And yeah Craig all good with the intake mods and other stuff that'll need to be done, it was on sale and I had to get it, I've got a very good mate that's awesome with fab work and it'll give us a reason to spend more time drinking in the garage

So with the EMU, the car will be kind of fighting the tune over time to get it back to normal because you are only tricking values that it still had control over right? Did you experience that when u had it Scott like did u need constant touch-up tunes? It's funny you mentioned Haltech because my mate was telling me he reckons I should contact them direct to see what we can do...He runs an autronic standalone in his car but it's rb30 powered so it's actually possible o__o. Do you guys think with a well skilled tuner I would be able to get a Haltech to work with the car or is it simply a waste of time/money and just stick to what all m35 modders have had success with? It would be nice to have control like the f-con but with more readily available parts/support and more tuners that a local brand can offer. Guess that's what you're hoping for with the adaptronic anyway hey!

So...it's really tough to know what's best to do aye.

[scotty nm35]

I tried contacting Haltech, Link, and Adaptronic 2 years ago via Email, they all brushed me off as there is realistically no money in it for them, I mean how many ecu's would they sell, 10?

Even backup support to fit a PS2000 would be nice, just someone to bounce ideas off, but no such luck. It's like they want to keep all secrets to themselves. I have a feeling you would need direct haltech support to get the cam actuation to work, as nothing I have seen runs a similar electronic clutch style arrangement, and you need completely different PWM frequencies to actuate our cams.

At least with a 350z plugin the rest of the engine would work fine, and there is apparently adjustment for the cam PWM outputs, but you would need to drop the 3.5 loom in there. As the CAN interface is different it won't talk to the other ecu's either I suspect, so you may need to leave the stock ecu in place so as not to lose car functions, especially the auto...

If you plan big power you will need a standalone, the EMU is fine to around 250kw though, more on ethanol imo.

[Ke55pig]

everyone should be hitting up nisstune pressure them to do something for m35

[PN-Mad]

everyone should be hitting up nisstune pressure them to do something for m35

They were approached ages ago, weren't interested. They haven't had anything to do with a Can Bus system anyway.

There are more promising re flashing companies out there that do modern cars....

[scotty nm35]

They can't even get the VQ30det running right, no electronic throttle, no EVCT. It's always so easy until you realise it actually isn't.

[DaveM35]

Yeah I need a solution that's available now also...

I just wanted to know what issues people knew of with the different setups. Like my mate was tellin me "why don't we just try hook up pretty much any aftermarket standalone even as a piggyback and should be sweet" but from everything I've learnt from here that's just not true, there's been a fair bit of trying different brands with only a couple roads to success and even they have compromises.

So Scotty I should probably just try to get a f-con I reckon, at least I shouldn't have to touch the computer side of things again. EMU sounds good enough for now but yeh don't wanna have to change again later if shit gets serious.

How much should I expect to pay? And is it possible to get a universal harness and butcher it to fit my car, so I'm not stuck trying to find the vq25 one forever.

Also who's the recommended tuner for F-cons in sydney?

[PN-Mad]

If it was me, I'd go for the adaptronic. Reason being you get local support and some good tuners that operate locally. Wait and see how the test car goes, and then you can talk to DVS Jez about the set up.

The support of it sways my choice over the hks product. I suspect you might come out with a few dorrahs change too over HKS when you look at getting a loom too.

[scotty nm35]

The only problem with the adaptronic is the cam actuation, if they can sort that out I will be impressed, it is quite complicated (self adjusting targeted PWM outputs) and the way Craig's is setup at the moment isn't satisfactory imo. Cable throttle or not, that side seemed to work just as well as the Fcon, (Just passable, better than stock)

[PN-Mad]

I would not discount the value of being able to pick up the phone and call someone about the Ecu.

[DaveM35]

So I contacted Haltech to see what they'd be able to offer currently and was told at the moment there is nothing that would 100% but he did say they are planning to add vq25 support soon and also try have a new ecu coming out first half of next year that can support multi-variable cam control and DBW, whic might be a good option.

[Jetwreck]

Lol.....if they try to flog you a piggyback system walk away. Go with the ps2000 or walk away.

Also unless you know a tuner that will help you out with it still walk away.

[WAGON_BOY]

I've got the HKS F-Con V-Pro, I'm very happy with it. as stated it has a fixed tune which I don't see as a problem.

DVS Jez set it up and done an awesome job, I'm only sitting at 204kwaw but still have the stock turbo.

I'll have to wait and see how it goes once I do the high flow turbo upgrade and injector upgrade........

only issue I can really see is the gearbox as it relies on the fuel injector duty cycle and torque curve to know when to shift, and I give my gearbox hell LOL.

as far as support goes I don't see that as a problem because once its setup, it should be fine!!! but then I haven't gone as crazy as Craig or Scotty..........yet HAHA

I'm not trying to crack all these throttle restrictions like Craig and whatever else he's trying to bypass

4wd manual would be cool but hay might as well buy a Audi RS6 estate instead rather than spend millions on hardcore modding the M35!!! probably turn out cheaper anyways ROFL (not really but hay - $225,000)

[Daleo]

4wd manual would be cool but hay might as well buy a Audi RS6 estate instead rather than spend millions on hardcore modding the M35!!! probably turn out cheaper anyways ROFL (not really but hay - $225,000)

$130 000. And there was another for $124 000.

Do these have a plastic spigot bush too Scotty?

[PN-Mad]

Do want.

Could have plastic wheels for all I'd care.

[DaveM35]

Haha rs4 nice

We've supercharged a couple of them at work and they go pretty decent! I reckon a turbocharged r36 passat manual would be a sick wagon project and probably nowhere near cost of rs4.

Turbo r32 golf/Audi TTs go amazing, so much better than stock n/a or later model 4cyl turbo.

Anyway back on topic, thanks for all the help so far guys, Theo I reckon what you and others have said about f-con makes it sound like a winner for me at this time, just needed to make sure ill e able to get a good tuner in sydney!

Can anyone tell me also will it be possible to get a universal harness and make that suit my car or is it only possible to try get the vq25 harness? These are like impossible to get now yeah?

And if I buy a new f-con from japan, will it come with software to get the car running straight away on base map, or do I need to get that from tuner?

[PN-Mad]

RS6

V10 twin turbo.

[Commsman]

RS6

V10 twin turbo.

Drool. A bit hard to justify the cost. If only I didn't like my house, have a family, or need to eat....

Nah, it's only a car. Nothing's worth missing out on a good feed, lol.