Accusump vs sump mods

[maccattack]

I have been reading many of the recent posts regards sump mods required for taking a GTR onto the track and have since been doing the ring around to get some prices on what is needed (not cheap). I have recently been speaking with a mechanic that uses an Accusump (check it out at www.accusump.com/) in a race car.

It would appear that it is an accumulator which deliveres oil at high (higher than standard) pressure to the engine as soon as it senses surge.

Seems the hardest part of fitting one is -where do you put it - because the race version isn't small. The best part is you don't have to pull the engine out.

As you fully charge the unit, you also have extra oil capacity (although it is only delivered as required)

Has anyone ever used one or heard of someone who has? If these work as well as they say, then it is a hell of a lot cheaper than sump mods.

[DAN00H]

looks pretty interesting and quite simple in operation. never heard of it before, so if I were you I would want to see what racing application it had been used in.

The position of the unit (in the oil feed path) would be critical - no point having pressure to the unit, while it bypasses the vital engine components...

Let us know what you do and/or find out.

Cheers

Dan

[ferni]

Sounds good, i'm also looking into sump baffles etc... so something like this would save me a lot of $$$

let me know if you find out anything

[Marlin]

[Steve]

What did the mechanic say it would cost to fit one up? sounds interesting.

[Marlin]

All my group's all been through the Gtr sump thing for years....Although the Accusump appears pretty cool (and we're looking at it for an rb26 gts-t that we can't stop oil surging, no matter what we do with the sump), I honestly believe modifying the sump in a Gtr is preferable, rather than adding a "band-aid" fix. Martin at John White Race Engines @ Woolloongabba in Brissy has done heaps for us... and it's cheap! We all used to take our Gtr's circuit racing on slick tyres (heaps of G's) and never once had oil pressure issues after Marty did the mods. BTW, one of the big issues but easy fixes is putting a restrictor in the oil feed to the head, as they tend to fill the cam covers at sustained high revs, and to do that you at least have to remove the head. I'd be just as happy removing the engine then the head, as opposed to the head in the car!

[mist]

Marlin : any contact details for Martin / John White Race Engines? I want to avoid oil surge on circuit driven R32 GTS-T (RWD sump).

[maccattack]

I have since spoken with a couple more mechanics who say that while the Accusump is not the perfect solution, it's pretty good.

To take out the engine is being quoted at around $1000-00 by itself. Sump mods vary from a couple of hundred dollar kit (which all are designed for street use) through to $2000-00 for the full sump extension / baffles / doors etc. So for a full "race ready" sump you are looking at about $3000-00 and car off the road for the mods from anything from 2-10 days (depending on whether they have an exchange sump which can be modified and swapped).

The Accusump is supplied and fitted for around $700-00 and the engine does not have to come out. They all seems to say, that while it is not perfect, it's pretty bloody good. They are currently using them on a lot of Mustangs and Corvettes with great success. As one mechanic said, when you are upgrading your engine, and it NEEDS to come out, do the full sump mod's, otherwise this is a pretty good fix in the meantime.

[Marlin]

Martin @ John White's no. is 07 3391 7533.

[TokyoTaxi]

All my group's all been through the Gtr sump thing for years....Although the Accusump appears pretty cool (and we're looking at it for an rb26 gts-t that we can't stop oil surging, no matter what we do with the sump), I honestly believe modifying the sump in a Gtr is preferable, rather than adding a "band-aid" fix. Martin at John White Race Engines @ Woolloongabba in Brissy has done heaps for us... and it's cheap! We all used to take our Gtr's circuit racing on slick tyres (heaps of G's) and never once had oil pressure issues after Marty did the mods. BTW, one of the big issues but easy fixes is putting a restrictor in the oil feed to the head, as they tend to fill the cam covers at sustained high revs, and to do that you at least have to remove the head. I'd be just as happy removing the engine then the head, as opposed to the head in the car!

Marlin,

I've heard quite a few people mention this oil restrictor mod.

Interested in hearing more about it if you can provide the info.

Things like where and how it's installed, orrifice size after installation, anything you can think of.

Seen it happen heaps at track days and I'm sure these guys would love to know the fix.

Cheers.

[Marlin]

It's simply a brass olive that is pressed into the block on the block "deck" (where block meets head).

This restricts the oil feed to the head only. The restrictor size we use has about a .035" orifice.

Also, if you decide to rebuild whilst engine out, be very wary of piston to bore clearence, and ring end gap, 'cause if it's too loose, even a little, it'll pump the sump dry by pressurising it. No matter how good the catch can system.

[TokyoTaxi]

V/Cool. Thanks for the info

Will pass it on.

[Sydneykid]

Hi Guys, we have fitted a Performance Metalcraft upgraded GTR sump without removing the engine. It took a (long) day for 2 guys to do on the hoist. It has raced on every circuit in NSW and a few in Vic since it was done. I have not seen any oil pressure movement on the data log in over 2 years.

www.performancemetalcraft.com.au

[Ustasa]

Hmm the more I read of the accusump the more I like it. It brings out the engineering part in me which says a oil accumulator (especially a piston pressurised version) is a very handy engine saving device.

With the one way check valve, variable volume resevoir (piston wall) and electronically actuated flow valve it gives you some room for error in terms of oil surge and pressurisation at start up. Even the best sump mods won’t give you fast pressure build up on start up.

For the money and potential ease of installation I’d do some very thorough research on this idea guys

[32ZiLA]

Marty @ John White rebuild my engine. We used the Tomei baffle in the sump and used the Tomei restrictors in the block.

Have a look at this site for more infor on the restrictors.

http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/_2003web-catalogu...l-lub_rset.html

[ferni]

A little bit off topic, but related.

The M5 engine has 4 oil pumps - 1 in each corner which would help.

[maccattack]

Hi Sydneykid,

I have been having trouble accessing the performance metal craft site - but will keep trying.

Every mechanic I have spoken with has told me the engine has to come out for sump work. Obviously, not having to take it out is going to save some bucks, but finding someone who can do it is the hard part. Is the work you did "standard" or is retrofitting on-car something beyond most mechanics?

As I have mentioned earlier, ensuring my engine doesn't blow up is fairly paramount, and with my very very limited understanding of mechanics, I sort of rely on these types of forums for ammunition to speak with local workshops.

[Sydneykid]

Hi Sydneykid,

I have been having trouble accessing the performance metal craft site - but will keep trying.

Every mechanic I have spoken with has told me the engine has to come out for sump work. Obviously, not having to take it out is going to save some bucks, but finding someone who can do it is the hard part. Is the work you did "standard" or is retrofitting on-car something beyond most mechanics?

As I have mentioned earlier, ensuring my engine doesn't blow up is fairly paramount, and with my very very limited understanding of mechanics, I sort of rely on these types of forums for ammunition to speak with local workshops.

It takes about the same amount of time to do it in the car, but there are no complications or risks. It is pretty hard to get the wiring wrong or damage the clutch if you don't take them out. I strongly suggest you jack up the car and have a look for yourself. Basically everything under and/or attached to the sump unbolts, so you remove all that stuff and there is easy access to the sump itself.

My suggestion is to have a chat to a few workshops.

Try www.hioctaneracing.com.au if the Performance Metalcraft site doesn't work, same people.

[maccattack]

Well, I finally had an Accusump fitted to the car yesterday along with a cooler and remote filter. As most have told me it is an intermediate solution to surging (as opposed to full sump work). They fitted the cannister inside the the front bumper (will a little modification) which keeps it relatively close to the engine to maintain good pressure. Whole unit cost me around $580-00 (including electronic control valve and switch) plus fitting.

I'll keep you up to date with how it goes - have some track work comming up next week. Whilst I previously haven't had any pressure drop, this should just act as a little more insurance.

[DoughBoy]

Which brand/size accusump did you get?