M35 Turbo Upgrade.

[conan7772]

I was looking at the SS1 but Craig stumbled across one of Scotty's old high flows.

ATP did for him a while ago.

I'm very happy with it, still with stock ECU.

Acceleration is way stronger.

Spools up very close to stock, ramps up a little slower until 3000 then keeps on going.

All I know about it is :

High Shaft Speed design

Balanced by Garrett

Bush bearing.

Scotty might be able to give more info on it.

The car is way better to drive ,as before the stock turbo with Scotty's dump and sports exhaust, the car was too sensitive on throttle taking off and reversing.

Now the boost comes on initially a little later and softer, then ramps up f%##@$ quick .

After Christmas I'm thinking of going the HDI Max-rom path.

Many thanks to Craig and Scotty.

[hypergear]

There are few options on the M35 high flows. The G1 high flow will perform close to factory response with more power and torque working with stock ecu.

As Matt mentioned The SS2 is made to reach 300awkws inside a stock VQ25 turbo casing. It is made for that purpose work with all supporting mods. A programmable ecu and a good tune will result a total difference in engine behavior, because factory turbo is small that generates boost at early RPM, the stock ecu runs lazy timing to compensate knock and add fuel to keep consistent AFR. With bigger turbocharger in place, down low the car still run lazy timing while there is no boost, rich since there is air to burn, and retarded up top. It will drive like a total pig.

Before carrying out any M35 high flows, I always ask the owner for the the extend of work planed for the Stagea before recommending a suitable high flow profile. But once the turbo is high flowed, it can not be reversed.

All the results taken of the SS2 M35 high flows are actually taken from properly tuned M35s that has all supporting mods. I have conducted few other evaluations, two smaller profiles are now available, that are more responsive with a trade off for top end power.

[BoostdR]

Thanks Tao,

I plan on uploading my emanage configuration once I'm done which should help members get to the level of tune required much quicker/cheaper if they end up using the SS2. I'm currently running a MAP sensor and 3" intake which made the biggest difference to down low rpm driveability. I also found the new bosch 95lb injectors to be much more linear over a big name injector and atomise properly(multi orifice over single) which also helped hot start, reduce oil dilution and low rpm driveability noticeably.

Matt

PS. Intake mod is cheap and easy without the MAF. Seach ebay item number 361310205711 Size is perfect for the SS2. buy some 3" silicone brake scat hose and wrap with some fibreglass header wrap(for the close proximity to the header)

Edited October 28, 2015 by BoostdR

[scotty nm35]

As Matt mentioned The SS2 is made to reach 300awkws inside a stock VQ25 turbo casing. It is made for that purpose work with all supporting mods.

The Stagea SS2 you produce has been butchered to the extent it now overboosts as you well know, the last 4 I have fitted won't run less than 25-30psi, (uncontrolled boost) even with the wastegate opened up to the max and running a 7 psi actuator. I won't be recommending it to anyone until you fix this issue and this time you can't wipe your hands of the problem. Shoving GT35 sized turbine wheels in only makes them laggier (like I said it would, obviously), and without an expensive high stall converter these Stagea owners are going backwards.

Still completely disappointed with my Stagea's old design SS2, the noises it makes sound worse than a blown stock turbo. Not something I expected for one of your best customers personal cars.

The ATP turbo that Alex mentioned above has zero shaft play after 6 years running 30psi, and I didn't even drill the sump banjos back then. An SS2 would have blown up in 50km with that oil flow, as 4 or 5 did before I found the restricted banjo bolts. Why is it that your turbo's need 10 times the oil supply, and if they don't get it it's somehow our fault, like we designed the oil system ourselves. You designed the turbo to suit our car, if it doesn't work, surely the onus should be on you to sort it out, not throw any assumed warranty out the window?

[BoostdR]

Hi Scotty,

I think your feedback has been addressed and most likely exactly why my response has been effected to the initial M35 SS2 as I may have the GT35 turbine. My minimum boost level is 14psi with 3 washers under the wastegate. The wastegate flap is also a billet enlarged item. I'll screen shot my response curve and post up a picture of the turbine and flap when I'm out of the office this afternoon so we can ascertain exactly what is going on.

[Commsman]

Before carrying out any M35 high flows, I always ask the owner for the the extend of work planed for the Stagea before recommending a suitable high flow profile.

This must be a relatively new policy Stao.

I'm glad you are offering a bigger range of turbos now & working with clients to ensure they get a product that meets their requirement.

My hi-flow is/was slower everywhere (around my area) except in 'drag strip' driving. You should do well with the more responsive versions.

All the best.

Edit: I was slow typing my reply & didn't read the few posts above. I didn't want to turn this into a Hypergear bashing exercise & had already tamed down my post. There is so much more to say....

Edited October 29, 2015 by Commsman

[BoostdR]

I found the last pic interesting. The gas is allowed to pass under the turbine wheel.

[hypergear]

M35Scotty:

FIrst of all this turbocharger was developed with you and evaluated by you, used for your customers and been sold by you for the past four years.

I don't remember having technical discussions apart from oil requirements of the current OEM G1 high flow, I have no issues making the turbocharger work with OEM oil supply, I will forward you with options later in this chapter.

The 300awkws high flow. The SS2 comp wheel was the smallest that is capable of flowing 300rwkws, so oem comp cover had enough materials on it to contain thais wheel.

With the turbine side:

Very first one had wastegate port bored to suit OEM disc. This was boost creeping to 25psi.

2nd revision had one of my billet gate on it shaped to suit the OEM gate casting port. This was holding consistent 20psi from memory, which is what you currently have.

3rd revision had a 36mm internal gate with OEM casting port milled flat, there is no more materials on the casting for a larger gate. this was holding 18psi with older SS2 turbine or 14psi with larger turbine.

4th revision had two reasons, first the cold side induction air noise you complained. 2ndly We were discussing about more power with OEM induction pipe, that is making power on limited air. I fitted a larger rear wheel (not GT35) car took more timing, made more power on lower boost, using oem induction. Downside is a 200RPM of lag trade off, it also got rid of the low RPM induction sound.

Working with OEM oil restrictors:

To lubricate bearings with less oil, the bearings must be narrowed, means thinner and shorter shaft. Smaller comp and turbine wheels, plus a shorter bearing housing. Factory bearing housing uses 18mm benjo with 24mm hex head on water and a 2 inches oil drain, shorter bearing housing does not have required materials to drill, even I did, no spanners could fit. It will be either getting new lines or drill out all oil restrictors.

I'm happy to work with you for a more desired output considering all known facts, and we will talk very shortly.

Matt: We've had few conversations, my understanding was full supporting mods and most power, since the car will be running high boost and tracked, I believe the 4th reversal was suitable reaching performance while keeping the tinny rear housing cool, I did my best to explain the lag factor, I've offer reversal after delivery and is happy to revise free if you wish for a change.

On conclusion, take OEM housings making turbine side small enough for factory driving ability while still have a 300awkws compressor internally gated, engine will be fighting boost creep and detonation. I'll be seeking out possibilities, work on smaller profiled high flow, and keep this post updated.

[BoostdR]

So my turbo was 3 weeks late because I was upgraded to a 200rpm laggier turbo?

We had lots of discussion because "I" called you several times to try to get a solid story.

You told me I was upgraded for "free" to a billet wastegate causing the delay in delivery. Not that I had a bigger-laggier turbined test dummy turbo. Yes you offered to downgrade me to a smaller highflow after all the delay but negated to give me all the information on what I was getting. I also never said I was going to track the car only that it would be pushed to max flow on the dyno for evaluation purpose.

Nice that you made all these decisions for me. Let's get the facts right hey.

If I knew what decisions you made on my behalf during all this pseudo consultation I would have chosen the min 18psi smaller turbine. Low rpm boost is so critical to these cars.

I can confirm my turbo makes power all the way to 8500rpm. Might be a tad overkill for the low rpm trade off.

[hypergear]

Matt:

I might be wrong, my understanding was you were pushing for the maximum power using a high flow during time been.

The larger rear wheel was a trade off of benefits to response, I've forwarded copy of dynosheet, full description of both profiles and a 2nd choice, I'm unsure of other information required but happy to supply additional information.

Your car is yet running a stock ecu untuned, there will be a differences to drive ability once tuned. The smaller profile is still available , When free please give me a ring and discuss options.

[BoostdR]

This story just gets more and more embellished.

You sent me a dyno sheet wheel after I received the turbo

We discussed power and response. You quoted it would make 20psi by 3700rpm knowing what ecu I was running.

I'm starting to get angry with you which is not in my personality so I'll stop now.

Do yourself a favor and stop bending the truth. I don't want to have to start posting up message screen captures.

I upload a video after work so all can judge response for themselves. And I will return your call. Make sure your ready to be honest.

[hypergear]

I've forwarded the latest dyno reading after your job was done because thats when it was sent in. just in case if you might not like the curve I've offered another option as I've had two spare turbos for exchange.

I'm going by the dyno reading. The original SS2 with the smaller wheel diameter was nosier, sitting on 15psi by 3500RPM, but there is a 5psi creep. New one is 200RPM laggier didn't creep, quieter, and made more power. I will upload data I have later on and hopefully we can workout an option for your preference.

[BoostdR]

You offered me another option prior to sending the turbo out and prior to sending the dyno curve.

Now it's 15psi by 3700rpm?? Should I post your advertisement stating 20psi by 3700rpm up??

I'm done arguing with you Tao, it's like talking to a child and so unprofessional.

If you want to compensate for the wasted labour fitting this turbo up on mislead information maybe we can work something out. I won't hold my breath.

[BoostdR]

https://youtu.be/_i4DIADEABc

Full throttle from stand still. Granted boost will be later with less load in first but you get the idea. I'll dig up some emu logs later to show higher gears.

PS 7 degrees additional timing below 4000rpm

Edited October 30, 2015 by BoostdR

[BoostdR]

So you post up the apparently old SS2 boost curve which looks like it actually is a GT3071 on an S14....thanks but the relevance??

And a dyno chart without boost plotted that starts at approx 3200rpm and shows peak torque at around 4700rpm.....thankyou that's looks pretty much spot on. I would have expected peak torque to be at 3700-3900rpm if your words lined up. So we are 1000rpm away from what I was promised, brilliant.

The above data was not given to me prior to delivery/installation....and certainly not given prior to you getting my money no that it is relevant at all. If you check our facebook messages I commented about the horrible response early in the peace and advised I would not post up my findings until I had completed all mods. Well mods are done plus some additional to claw back response...how about you actually take some responsibility instead of this pitiful display.

It's interesting.. all the messages I'm now getting from others who have had hypergear turbo's not align with your promises. I should have known better, being in the racing industry what doesn't live up to promise shows up on the race track very very quickly. Hard data is impossible to ignore...and a dyno is easy to skew. Hell I could get a EFR 7076 to make 30psi at 2750rpm last week by loading it up for a few seconds on the rollers. On the road it makes 30 psi at 3600rpm in 4th.

Edited October 30, 2015 by BoostdR

[BoostdR]

Lol, that's also not true either. I had received the turbo already.

You really should stop talking. Your credibility was already down to zero, now your at -10

[BoostdR]

Spoke with Tao on the phone. The issue has been resolved.

He has apologized for his conduct

Has learnt a lesson to actually personally test each revision prior to marketing.

[Daleo]

Good to hear.

All most unhappy customers want is to be acknowledged, and have their issues taken care of.

[hypergear]

In terms of 300awkws high flow using OEM Stagea housings. It is possible to getting that power, but not practical in terms of working with stock auto and real life driving. The SS2 high flow option is no longer available.

I will be working on smaller billet profiles that is capable of making up to 250awkws using factory oil supply systems and chasing factory stock response.

2ndly I noticed the pricing of the M35 stageas came down by quite bit, I will likely be buying one and carrying out some research work in near future.

[Beregron]

Depending on how my M35 feels power wise once my M35 manual conversion is done (stupid start motor issues slowing me down) I might look at what to do with the turbo...

Mind you i still have all the ECU issues to go through once the manual box is in place.

I have a SS2 Hypergear unit in at present with a Greddy EMU so i have no idea what kind of results i'll see with a standalone ECU in place.

All this information is very interesting to me though.