M35 Turbo Upgrade.

[Daleo]

Those results kinda speak for themselves.I assume this was running E85 and decent boost?

Stock injectors, 98 and 16psi.

152kw on stock ecu and injectors. boost cut at 14psi lol. I've looked at the intense Rs, problem is they can't run anything less then 30psi, Car is my daily, no local E85 pumps.

Hypergear's got a totally different rep in other crowds. They are working another M35.

What's this "nothing under 30psi" nonsense? Who told you that? You aren't hitting boost cut at 14psi; boost cut is at 19 or 20psi Peter.

I'm pretty sure this is Lakes daily as well; you CAN make good power, and have a car that drives nicely; there are plenty to prove that.

[Lakes101]

152kw on stock ecu and injectors. boost cut at 14psi lol. I've looked at the intense Rs, problem is they can't run anything less then 30psi, Car is my daily, no local E85 pumps.

Hypergear's got a totally different rep in other crowds. They are working another M35.

tuned on pump98 with stock injectors! Mate I'm runing 16-19 psi so don't know where you got this 30psi minimum from? Mine is my daily to and with the tune it's been much for fuel efficient and better to drive. The intense billet RS has a upgraded 1bar actuator but with a ebc or mbc you set the boost to your desired level dude. Edited February 21, 2016 by Lakes101

[Beregron]

More good info lads. Cheers.

This is also my daily and i'm going to see what can be achieved with my current turbo set up but if the turbo is not suitable at the end of all this i will have a decision to make.

many adjustments to make between then and now but i do like to see what is working for others.

[scotty nm35]

What's this "nothing under 30psi" nonsense? Who told you that?

I can only imagine who told him that, in desperation.

Hypergear have a good name, unfortunately the way you treat a customer is remembered long after the turbos have failed. We gave him many opportunities to repair or redesign his turbo's, we even tried to work with him to develop something that would work on the M35 long term. In the end we had no choice but to develop a baller turbo elsewhere.

No need to make up crap to sell our turbo's, they sell themselves.

[petero'nell]

No, my setup is overboosting, unfortunately I only have a 3 bar sensor which means I need to keep the boost under 28psi. Using these heavy spring actuators and a stock housing that's way too restrictive, the exhaust gas at that power can't bypass around the turbine fast enough, meaning the shaft overspeeds. At normal power levels the wastegate flows just fine. Just a simple drawback of highflow internal gate turbo's. Tao controls this using the wheel sizes, but it is subject to change depending on flow obviously. To me this just shows how efficient the compressor wheel is, and seeing the boost isn't dropping off, it likely has a lot more to give.

I was reading your own reply about the boost creep.

[Philr32]

I think you've misunderstood, Scott clearly says "at normal power levels the Wastegate flows just fine". I think he may be saying that controlling boost at his levels is hard. So basically you can control low boost but once you up the boost its kind of all out, limited control. I may be wrong but that's the way I understood it.

[hypergear]

I'm selling a BB Garrett GT/X vs a bush bearing what ever at more reasonable price, guess what is more attempting.

Our tuner told me you have uncontrollable 34psi boost spike then tapering to 28psi. I believe this might be the wrong set of wheels in the wrong housings, not because its efficient. After all no one wants to run 34psi in a stock built engine and transmission Scotty, and this information should not be hidden.

You came to me for M35 developments in 2013, you had the car, I took your feedbacks, we were in this project together. you published the sump oil restrictor in 2014 in resolving oil delivery issues, that was already known and worked.

The initial SS2 development issue rise to me wasn't response, but to fix the control boost creep, mind you that was a 21psi creep at 6500RPM making 301awkws. I did a whole lot of work in upgrading the OEM internal gate assemble, comp wheel re-sizing an turbine alternative to keep a steady 17psi, and later was response, so everything went ball bearing, please don't say I did nothing to in reaching your goals.

Now owning two Stageas and look back.

Main problem with the old SS2 is OEM actuator gets blown open, factory wastegate does not all allow a full 90 degrees movement. I'm in the process of engineering some actuator assemblies that can open a fully 90 degrees wastegate bunk on the same time holds onto an unmodified internal gate lever. The actuator have made a very noteicable difference to both response and power, They will be given to our M35-SS2 owners free of charge.

Im been in the M35 turbo game for more then 3 years, and there are other very specific reasons of why I have to go to Garrett BB CHRAs, I will put explanation to it with photos in an later date.

[scotty nm35]

I'm selling a BB Garrett GT/X vs a bush bearing what ever at more reasonable price, guess what is more attempting.

Our tuner told me you have uncontrollable 34psi boost spike then tapering to 28psi. I believe this might be the wrong set of wheels in the wrong housings, not because its efficient. After all no one wants to run 34psi in a stock built engine and transmission Scotty, and this information should not be hidden.

You came to me for M35 developments in 2013, you had the car, I took your feedbacks, we were in this project together. you published the sump oil restrictor in 2014 in resolving oil delivery issues, that was already known and worked.

The initial SS2 development issue rise to me wasn't response, but to fix the control boost creep, mind you that was a 21psi creep at 6500RPM making 301awkws. I did a whole lot of work in upgrading the OEM internal gate assemble, comp wheel re-sizing an turbine alternative to keep a steady 17psi, and later was response, so everything went ball bearing, please don't say I did nothing to in reaching your goals.

Now owning two Stageas and look back.

Main problem with the old SS2 is OEM actuator gets blown open, factory wastegate does not all allow a full 90 degrees movement. I'm in the process of engineering some actuator assemblies that can open a fully 90 degrees wastegate bunk on the same time holds onto an unmodified internal gate lever. The actuator have made a very noteicable difference to both response and power, They will be given to our M35-SS2 owners free of charge.

Im been in the M35 turbo game for more then 3 years, and there are other very specific reasons of why I have to go to Garrett BB CHRAs, I will put explanation to it with photos in an later date.

I asked you many times to supply a Garrett core, your answer was always that the manifold pressure would cause excess thrust load, flogging the bearings out. You were correct, as many of the other Garrett highflow cores around can't handle higher boost levels either. I hope you are mentioning that to your current customers...

My engine is stock, and while I have had my gearbox rebuilt, it is by no means a built 2 speed powerglide. The converter has extra lock up clutches, and I am running extra line pressure to handle the torque at my previous 350kw. I have built enough M35's to know 300wkw is attainable on a shift kitted stock box if you don't go frigging around with the lockup clutch and TCU. You caused your own gearbox issues here mate, perhaps you need a better mechanic.

I have great boost control, if you don't want to run 30psi, don't run a 27psi actuator. Pretty simple. After seeing our Youtube vid of the stock actuator versus our aftermarket actuator opening angles you suddenly realised the issue? Please don't pretend you worked that one out for yourself, you simply copied our design with Chinese parts to undercut us.

[hypergear]

I asked you many times to supply a Garrett core, your answer was always that the manifold pressure would cause excess thrust load, flogging the bearings out. You were correct, as many of the other Garrett highflow cores around can't handle higher boost levels either. I hope you are mentioning that to your current customers...

True in applications when the trust wear is on hot side, when dealing with RB, SR, 1J, 2J and majority of engines

M35 has an opposite scenario as the thrust flog is on the cold side as comp wheel is pushed into the thrust plate, and there is no room to fit anything under the back plate to stop that thrust wear. This has some thing to do with restriction in the size of the comp housing as well as the size of cams and inlet runners.

Garrett has a new improved ball bearing cartridge this year specifically aimed to at this problem, which is what currently been used. And there is no comparison to BB response in factory auto on/off boost.

As you already know the actuator tension on the M35 can not control boost creep in a free flow system. The only way to control that is by reducing the size of effectiveness of the compressor wheel or increase the efficiency of the turbine. Both methods will affect Maximum power as well as response.

Any one can make an actuator bracket, at least I'm offering free solutions. Perhaps you should've picked on the factory actuator assembly instead of those $5 Bunnings springs three years ago, and we should not have this problem.

[Daleo]

[scotty nm35]

Luckily I don't pretend to be a turbo guru, I have professionals taking care of that for me these days, specialists that don't need to guess and test shit out on my car.

M35 has an opposite scenario as the thrust flog is on the cold side as comp wheel is pushed into the thrust plate, and there is no room to fit anything under the back plate to stop that thrust wear. This has some thing to do with restriction in the size of the comp housing as well as the size of cams and inlet runners.

3 small bolts will hold the thrust washer down nicely, that's why there are holes in the 360 degree washers if you didn't know. (even in the Chinese copy version you run...) This in turn stops the oil pressure dropping off and starving the shaft bushes. Perhaps you need a training course?

Dale, pass some of that popcorn around.

[hypergear]

LoL still haven't figured out the differences between cold and hot side turbo ends are Scotty , There are lot more then one way to firmly bolt the thrust plate in, the bolts are not must, and what does that has any thing to do with cold side wear? If you are just wish to pick whats CHRA components are made by Garrett, then I can tell you my whole CHRA is made by Garrett.

About the cold side wear, this doesn't happen over night, it takes some time for it to happen. I've rebuilt other bush bearing high flowed M35 turbos had similar issues. Which is also reasons I've reduced my compressor size over time and ultimately moved towards Garrett BB cores.

[scotty nm35]

Fair enough, keep learning your way into turbo development at the customer's expense...

I would have been happy if the thrust would stay where it was supposed to instead of using some cheap arse spring I can easily push forward with my fingers. Anyone with half a brain can work out why the backing plate is wearing, a part that should never see damage.

Reducing compressor size is your answer to everything, unfortunately that reduces power output, hence why our Intense turbo flows more. What makes me laugh is that ours is more responsive than either your bush, Garrett or Ceramic bearing cartridges, and that is only our first bush core design.

Just wait a few weeks more, there is something special coming.

[hypergear]

I'm making changes while you persisted.

While I'm the third person telling you the major fault with that spring hooked actuator design, and today let me be the first person to you there is a problem with your T3x 360 degrees thrust bearing assembly working with a big wheel in M35 comp cover.

Ps. Compare with 17inch wheels and unlocked converter. then compare where the power is been registered down low. That will tell you where advantage of BB sits on a roller dyno.

[Intense m35]

As far as I know when ever we have had scottys car on the dyno he has only had the converter locked to help obtain accurate power figures... This is the dyno graph comparison for our Intense billet rs vs hypergears latest rev...??? Whatever. Very interesting spool and midrange comparisons.

[hypergear]

Tuner advised my car has 17inch wheels which Scotty has 18 inches wheels with higher tyre profile. The wheel diameter makes the reading skewer to the left on a roller dyno, if I put a set of 20 inches on with high profile tyres, the results will be again different.

2ndly my convert doesn't lockup, what you are seeing there is partial throttle ramp before it comes to an lock then full throttle. Hence the differences on this car with free and locked converter on paper. Auto don't usually lock up on road driving, using an pulse locked converter, compare the unlocked runs of mine will give you an more accurate comparison. also notice 30kws differences at 70KM this is range where the auto uses mostly for road driving.

My car made peed of 291awkws @ 22psi, while Scotty makes 300awkws @ 30psi. That is not that much of a differences for 8psi boost, and there is no way I'm going to run 30psi on a stock car.

[stripey]

Although i am interested in the different options available this constant backward and forwards nonsense is making this thread hard to digest. Put the figures up without the small talk would be muchly appreciated

[Beregron]

From my reading here Lakes101 (Nathan) and Daleo are both running much less than 30psi with the Intense turbo so i'd be interested to see dyno readings from them as a comparison. Mainly to see how soon it makes boost etc... They have both probably provided these already and i'm not remembering

I care a lot less about peak power and more about response after all.

I'll gladly put up results after my next bout of tuning but it will be me still using a R1 SS2 Hypergear unit with hopefully one of Tao's newer actuators.

Again if i'm not happy i'll have a turbo decision to make but i will have to be really careful as i agree 100% with Scotty that myself as the customer should not have to be responsible in any way to test / R & D anything to do with a turbo being sold to me by a private business. Unless of course prior arrangements have been made,

Cheers

[Lakes101]

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[Beregron]

champion