M35 Turbo Upgrade.

[hypergear]

Sorry I can not agree with this. None customer was used as a test subject, private tests has been conducted and arranged by Scotty before any turbos has been sold. I have all dyno data of the early prototype M35 high flows conducted in 2013 Feb.

The product is improving over time in various of directions like anything else. So there will be an gap in performance to earlier products. How ever I'm pickup components worth upgrading and try to minimise that gap for early customers as possible, and that is usually free.

[Beregron]

I'm a complete outsider when it comes to turbo design and really have no idea what works and what doesn't. I guess what i don't understand is why less than 2 years ago a highflow that i purchased has now gone through what... 5 or 6 revisions to what is being sold today??? Perhaps the fault in my set up is elsewhere and once i get better tuning with my emanage i'll happily post results. I am very happy that constant r & d is being done to improve what options we M35 owners have and we all have to decide what money we spend on our cars and what we want out of them... I'm not saying 5 or 6 different versions of the SS2 have been sold to people but you can see my point. Dropping large amounts of dollars on pulling turbo's on and off is not something i'm keen on,,, my money can be spent better elsewhere.

I'll be testing out this new actuator you send me once it's ready Tao but i just can't justify at this stage spending any more money on a hypergear product until I've gotten all i can out of my original SS2.

I do appreciate your ongoing development with the M35. I'm sure we all know that the market for these things continues to grow.

[scotty nm35]

Tuner advised my car has 17inch wheels which Scotty has 18 inches wheels with higher tyre profile. The wheel diameter makes the reading skewer to the left on a roller dyno, if I put a set of 20 inches on with high profile tyres, the results will be again different.

2ndly my convert doesn't lockup, what you are seeing there is partial throttle ramp before it comes to an lock then full throttle. Hence the differences on this car with free and locked converter on paper. Auto don't usually lock up on road driving, using an pulse locked converter, compare the unlocked runs of mine will give you an more accurate comparison. also notice 30kws differences at 70KM this is range where the auto uses mostly for road driving.

My car made peed of 291awkws @ 22psi, while Scotty makes 300awkws @ 30psi. That is not that much of a differences for 8psi boost, and there is no way I'm going to run 30psi on a stock car.

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What you are seeing is simply the difference between a locked converter and an unlocked flaring converter. The difference is called lag.

If you feel you are unfairly disadvantaged by a higher tyre profile to that extent, everyone would be running 22's for the response. That is just nonsense. You have a lot to learn about auto's too it seems.

[Intense m35]

Tuner advised my car has 17inch wheels which Scotty has 18 inches wheels with higher tyre profile. The wheel diameter makes the reading skewer to the left on a roller dyno, if I put a set of 20 inches on with high profile tyres, the results will be again different.

2ndly my convert doesn't lockup, what you are seeing there is partial throttle ramp before it comes to an lock then full throttle. Hence the differences on this car with free and locked converter on paper. Auto don't usually lock up on road driving, using an pulse locked converter, compare the unlocked runs of mine will give you an more accurate comparison. also notice 30kws differences at 70KM this is range where the auto uses mostly for road driving.

My car made peed of 291awkws @ 22psi, while Scotty makes 300awkws @ 30psi. That is not that much of a differences for 8psi boost, and there is no way I'm going to run 30psi on a stock car.

Tao remember lag is lag, which is what the incorrect turbocharger will give you, don't look for excuses and blame the M35 engine and auto for your lag issues! We don't have any issues with the intense billet rs with lag or reliability... I'm sure current users can confirm that!

[hypergear]

Of course your convert is locked from the start of the run with a switch. That made your unlocked run looked almost identical. Thats fine, I will have the same device installed, and will head back for another run.

That turbo is quite responsive to drive, there's customer feedback on that, you can ask feedbacks from the previous owner of my car who has test driven that vehicle.

[hypergear]

Regardless. M35RV1 (Garrett GT2971R). Full stock car with pod and 3 inches turbo back exhaust only:

Red: After turbo upgrade in 4th. 218awkws @ 17psi

Green: Stock turbo in 4th. 160awkws @ 12psi

Orange: Third unfinished run.

This is a super responsive turbo for the M35.

[conan7772]

What's with the flat spot between 4000 and 5000 rpm Nathan ?

Also torque drops off and comes back.

Dales is similar but not at bad.

Is that the stock ECU pulling things back for the TCU shift points ??

Edited February 23, 2016 by conan7772

[Lakes101]

Apparently is was knocking at that point so they had to pull it back a touch

[Intense m35]

Of course your convert is locked from the start of the run with a switch. That made your unlocked run looked almost identical. Thats fine, I will have the same device installed, and will head back for another run.

That turbo is quite responsive to drive, there's customer feedback on that, you can ask feedbacks from the previous owner of my car who has test driven that vehicle.

Tao your forgetting that scotty and I have tested One of your turbo's on his car... Also tested our Intense billet rs on it too! There was world's of differences on the same car so you can't complain about this or that! Even though you claim your new turbos may be a improvement, it's not enough to match the gap shown on the first dyno comparison! There is alot too make up for, but feel free to keep trying, but just remember we haven't even made a revision yet, because there is no faults with our turbo, but when we do it won't be because of customer complaints it will be because of our love of the M35 and for its further development.

[hypergear]

You did test one of my older turbos on the car, I have no complaints with that result.

The new BB GT series was not tested on any of your cars and there is a big difference between the two. You can use Nathan's boost log to compare mine. I've fitted quite Garrett cores into M35 turbos since last year, more results will be in shortly.

I will use factory turbo's base run for all boost comparisons.

Stock Turbo in 3rd gear with boost controller:

M35RV1 Third Gear factory solenoid :

[Leroy Peterson]

Can't we just let the customer (or future customers) decide on whose turbo they want to use?

Do Precision and Garrett have pissing contests on forums? If would be funny if they did, but they don't.

Start a new wagon series of drag racing, sponsor a car or two with your turbos.

[stripey]

ill leave this here. and if requested will remove.

Edited February 24, 2016 by stripey

[petero'nell]

LoL

Just replaced a f*ked fuel pump. I 2nd the my Hypergear Garrett high flows is almost as responsive as factory turbo. Want to sponsor my car Stao? you can start with a ECU .

[BoostdR]

Unfortunately due to the very average Australian vs US dollar my Indy car Borg Warner turbo purchase fell through. I'll have to keep that experience to my race car. As fait my have it however. While I was in Melbourne on holidays I went to visit Tao at Hypergear. We discussed the downfalls of my Rev 4 turbo. Kudos to Tao who in person was very humble and agreed to continue to evolve the high power end of development for the M35 Stagea. From my logs and experience with the Rev 4 we have decided on a development version for me to test. My turbo is in the mail as I speak. Plans to bypass the previous issues of low boost and too much turbine flow are as follows below. As a side influence the turbo may also produce more power. I should state in 3rd gear at 26-28psi the Rev 4 was sensational. Acceleration to the point my exhaust would scrape on the ground.

Development design:

Change small diameter turbine heat shield to large which increases flow directed onto the turbine tips rather than under causing interference and wasting energy. Aim is to increase spool an upper boost capacity.

Change the compressor from a low blade SS2 to a high blade SS2. This will create more flow/boost at the same turbine speeds. It may increase spool however more torque from the turbine is required to spin it so will have to wait and see.

The bearings will be changed from bush to hybrid combination dual german ceramic ball bearings(yes German not Chinese) with a bush bearing style thrust plate. This ensures reliability at high shaft speeds whilst also realising some of the CBB spool benefits. The turbine shaft will be machined down to allow the CBB's to be fitted which will reduce rotational mass. Being close to the centre of the mass spool benefit will be minimal however some benefit will be realised.

The wastegate will have the new heavy duty actuator installed which is capable of high arm angles whilst resisting the increased pressure from the oversized puck.

The intake will be tapered down from a 3" bolt on adaptor to compressor rather than being 90degrees.

Intake pipe is 3" to 3.15"

I feel a little of development and experience from everyone contributing to this thread is reflected in this. I'll update results with lots of comparative graphs when available.

PS I have a spare engine and two spare gearboxes ready to go

PPS is it just me or has the price of M35's gone up in the last few months..

Matt

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My next Generation M35 high flow will be installed soon. Results from the same CHRA on an R34 are looking good. Responsive 308rwkw on BP98 @ 20psi. E85 should net 340-360rwkw @ similar boost.

To note. The M35 housings are smaller reducing power potential however I will be running more boost.

The compressor wheel is custom cast and resulted in 250rpm better spool over the billet SS2 which is designed to flow more without surge. The Wastegate is set to 20psi on the bench(will be less min boost with back pressure on the flapper) bearings are Hybrid metal/ceramic ball bearing for durability and lowest rotational friction. Intake is tapered to reduce noise and increase flow. Intake pipe is 80mm to the filter with no MAF. Should have some driving impressions during the next couple of weeks.

Matt

Edited February 27, 2016 by BoostdR

[BoostdR]

It has arrived. Kinda big..

[Jetwreck]

looking good Matt.

Glad to see some thought is being put into Hypergear setups from you now Matt. How much for the setup your doing?

[scotty nm35]

20psi on the bench will be bugger all on the road. It takes roughly 70psi to fully open my Turbosmart gate, the Garrett I last used cracked at 30. No way you will be able to run high boost if it cracks at 20.

I really hope he bolted the thrust washer down for you Matt, even that old cast wheel will cause some thrust load, and you don't want to be changing the turbo again I suspect.

[BoostdR]

The wastegate rod is adjustable so I might wind it up a tad before I run it.

The thrust washer movement has been addressed. My previous SS2 turbo had no measurable wear when checked after removal.

The cast wheel is a 2016 custom design which outflows and out spools the previous SS2 billet wheel. (This was tested in a different compressor cover however)

Install is happening. At this stage I have moved up the passenger engine mount up by 8mm to fit in my induction piping. Once that's done it shouldn't be too far away from first run.

[BoostdR]

Intake pipe coming along. The up pipe will be ovalised (is that a word) slightly to give some clearance, even with the passenger engine mount raised up 8mm. Used PVC Pipe for testing to get the turbo outlet angles correct.. bent up the manifold heat shield underside, closest to the compressor inlet for clearance also.

Matt

[Philr32]

What diameter pipe are you using matt?