Gtx3067R R34 Rb25Det Neo

[stev076vl]

Looking at upgrading my standard turbo in my r34 gtt with a Garrett gtx3067r or a gtx3071r. The r34 has fmic, power fc, sard 550cc injectors and fuel rail, tomi fuel reg and cams and a Nismo fuel pump.apexi pod.z32 afm.high flow exhaust n cat..looking to go with a 6boost manifold. Turbosmart 45mm gate. Cant seem to find much information about how these turbos go on the neo engine . probably looking to run about 15lb boost. I have done some calculations and require a turbo that can flow about 37lb/min. Pressure ratio 2.02. Looks like i require a turbo between these.Is there a thread on these turbos fitted to a R34 neo engine or can someone point me in the right direction.cheers

[Dale FZ1]

You won't find the results vary much whether it is a Neo spec engine, or R33 spec RB25.

There are no commonly known results for the GTX3067 so you would be breaking a bit of new ground there. Power target does not look terribly high with the quoted PR and mass flow targets so it may well be a half reasonable match. The turbine will surely have enough capacity to exhale what the compressor is trying to pump through it. There is another thread with comments about this unit.

For GTX3071 check out the results achieved by Mick-o

[Dale FZ1]

There are varying ideas about the value of fabricated manifolds, and your choice might be influenced by application the car is being used for, and budget. The stock manifold will easily flow the sort of exhaust mass at the target output, but Roy has very specific experience about what the drive characteristics can be when changing from fabricated to OEM cast manifolds and vice-versa. Perhaps search or PM and solicit his views directly.

IF you chose the 3067, you may find a half decent compromise (financial and performance) to be sourcing a Kinugawa 0.63 housing and graft the Turbosmart gate directly to that. Might yield very quick response and proper boost control which the GT30 0.63IW housing does not seem to have a good reputation for. Probably have an easier time of fabricating dump pipes too.

Then you always have the option of going up to a fabricated manifold at a later time.

Be aware that the GTX3071 will punch harder, and don't short change yourself if you harbour a desire to run 20+psi through the smaller unit.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

IBTL..

Disco went on for 100+ posts about this turbo.

[Dale FZ1]

Very much a niche turbo but it might be ok and fill some people's objectives.

[discopotato03]

There are some examples of people using GTX3067Rs but not on Nissan RB engines - yet . The story is that on modern 2 + Litre fours they are cranking out a little over 400 whp and a similar number of wheel foot pounds of torque . One feller actually went from A GTX2867R to a GTX3067R and found the lag difference trivial , something like 1-200 revs he thought .

Another fella with a 3SGTE went from a GT3071R to a GTX3067R and found it had a lower boost threshold , think 300 odd revs , and it made same or a little more power without the compressor surge issues GT3071Rs sometimes have .

ATM it's supposition to guess what power a GTX3067R can make on an RB25 , preferably a GTt one . Garrett rate them at 500 engine horsepower so if you think your set up is fairly efficient and driveline ect losses won't exceed 100 horsepower then yes you could have 400 potential wheel horsepower (300Kw) . If you erred on the conservative side then 280+ RWKW is probably very doable on high ethanol fuels .

On your numbers a GTX3067R pisses in 37 pounds min airflow at 2 pressure ratio (15 pounds) of boost and not at the bleeding edge of the compressor map either .

The burning question should be how far up the rev range will this turbo boost usefully . Under that point I can't see any GT30R based turbo being better .

A .

Edited May 12, 2014 by discopotato03

[Mick_o]

Im quite curious to see how the 3067 will turn out for you Steve. The GTX3071R IWG setup in my old car was an absolute cracker on the stock manifold. I honestly wouldn't do anything any differently if I had my time again

In 2nd gear if you wanted to it would light up the tyres at 3800 and pull quite aggressively to my 7200 rev limit, shift gears and it was straight back on again. Even when short shifted well before the limiter!

Just wondering why you wanna use a big $$$ manifold and gate setup if youre only capping yourself to 15psi?

What size rear housing are you planning on using and what fuel are you using mate?

[Dale FZ1]

I'm with Mick on this one.

That 3067 looks very much like a newer/updated iteration on the 2871 GTRS concept. If it's run within certain limits should prove to be quite responsive and make a solid spread of torque. Looking at the flow map it's hard to conceive why on an RB25 you'd want to screw much any more than a PR of 2.2-2.3 out of it when big brother GTX3071 exists.

I'll back it in that the claims of 400whp etc cited by Adrian are with US based forums and there is endless conjecture about the difference in the size of their horses vs Australian ones. The Yankee brothers always seem to claim more.

This little unit just appears to offer a decent output and possibly better low rpm/load response but why you'd want to buy one if targeting beyond the 350rwhp (Australian sized ones) would be baffling.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Dale FZ1

[stev076vl]

Looking at the flow chart and trying to remain mostly in the effiency island the gtx3071 will give me plenty to play with later if I do decide to increase boost levels depending on how much the standard bottom end can handle. The both turbos are clear of the surge line but the gtx3071 comes close which may only be detrimental at high altitudes. I was leaning on the gtx3067 as it wont have the lag but what rpm does it run out of puff. Looks like it performs better at boost levels of 20psi + but turbine rpm will be much higher resulting in shorter turbo life . Not sure on the rear housing. .63 seems like the go but I havnt done much study between that and the .82 and benefits of both.

Currently only running bp premium as a fuel but as the car is only a cruiser I will definitely look at other options. My last build was a rb30det VL so im fairly new to skylines.

Thanks everyone for your input so far and any more advice is appreciated.

[discopotato03]

IMO these X3067Rs are more like a GT3071R or GT2835 Pro S replacement . If you download and go through the turbobygarrett catalog it shows the compressor maps .

I don't think it's relevant to compare GT28 to GT30 based turbos because the hot side flow and shaft power can never be comparable . Obviously this is why a GTX2867R and GTX3067R don't perform the same .

GTRS wise assuming you had the HKS turbine housing to start with a better comparison would be whichever GTX2860/63/67R had the same airflow potential . Without looking I reckon it would be the GTX2863R cause the X67 wheel flows a tad more than a 71mm 52T GT compressor .

My GTRS topped out at 271 wheel wasps and 17 pounds of boost falling to 14 , and on Eflex E70 . It clearly ran out of exhaust flow and a bigger or bigger trim compressor would have done zip for it IMO .

I've read too many accounts of people not liking the larger 0.86 GT28 turbine housing and they only ever had a T28 mount flange anyway .

Anyhow my prediction is something like 370-400 wheel horsepower if the support systems are up to it and the tuning is right - on E70 or E85 . Pulp could pull that back maybe 50 horsepower at a guess . May take 17-20 pounds of boost but the potential is definitely there on a fighting fit engine .

A .

[Dale FZ1]

Possibly missing the point Adrian. I was thinking that perhaps the GT28 spec turbine just wasn't up to the flow capabilities of the compressor even in with the 52T 71mm compressor on the GT-RS. The fact you could whack 17psi through it in the mid range and then it tailed off to 14psi up top is something of a telltale on what its strength was - light/moderate upgrade from stock. Blow too hard and you could (did) find its limits.

Back it in that the GTRS on pump 98 was somewhere in the 240-250rwkW bracket, and you'd generally need everything matched nicely to get the last 10kW.

The flow map for this X67 compressor combination is not that different vs the GT2871 52T if you run in the 2.0-2.5 PR bracket in terms of what it will pump, and efficiencies. But it can be mated to a turbine with greater flow efficiency.

I'll consider this unit a good option for those considering the HKS product, but not that far removed in terms of overall characteristics. Garrett themselves never went to the trouble/expense of developing a T3 flanged housing for the GT28 turbine so that's telling us something.

Steve the OP nailed it in saying that running this thing out to maximum rotating speed simply wears it out faster, when the option is to go up a size in compressor if you want to knock on the door of 300rwkW. Difficult to justify the logic in screwing the heart out of a turbo although there are those who do. Short service life = more frequent bills to change bits out, and not too many people have a sponsor or wealthy uncle

It really comes down to identifying the desired outcome and specify accordingly.

[Dale FZ1]

None of the previous post should be interpreted that I am pooh-poohing the x67. It could and probably should make for a responsive, streetable little weapon but why worry if it can make a hp number around 400 on a sheet.

If it responds quickly and gives strong easy torque in the rpm range most frequently used/accessed then it could be well up on the list of choices for those not wanting to spend up on bulk modifications and upgrades.

[wolverine]

Steve the OP nailed it in saying that running this thing out to maximum rotating speed simply wears it out faster, when the option is to go up a size in compressor if you want to knock on the door of 300rwkW. Difficult to justify the logic in screwing the heart out of a turbo although there are those who do. Short service life = more frequent bills to change bits out, and not too many people have a sponsor or wealthy uncle

It really comes down to identifying the desired outcome and specify accordingly.

Didn't the OP say it was a daily driver. Hard pressed to wring the neck of the turbo that often on the street. So what if you screw shiteload of boost in? The impression I got is that it isn't gonna spend much time there anyway. You get a more streetable turbo and some cake to eat when you want it. Just another point of view...to confuse the OP further.

[GTSBoy]

Perhaps the other way to look at it is that a Neo inherently has a little more flow potential than an old RB25 and therefore possibly benefits from a bigger turbo. Therefore choosing the smallest available turbo out of the GTX30 range might be less satisfying.

Another way to look at it is....why use a plastic bearing caged GTX turbo with a cast compressor wheel when so many billet options that shit all over them both in terms of performance and potential longevity exist?

[discopotato03]

I don't know that the Neo has any greater flow potential , don't think their inlet ports are any larger or the inlet manifold as big or bigger internally .

Possibly a tad more efficient combustion esp with lean cruise mixtures .

If I had to guess I reckon its that combined with the fast opening/closing slightly higher lift solid cam profiles and the larger standard turbine housing that made the difference . Throw in a higher capacity SMIC and the power wouldn't have been hard to find .

A .

[Ben C34]

I agree its the different profile cams in the neo that would likely equal more flow.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Ben C34

[AngryRB]

Has the OP considered the HTA range, cause there has been some suggestions that the 3073 of that range could be an awesome streeter considering the compressor size and weight etc, the HTA 3076 that matt runs has had a lot of good praise on the forums so why not give its baby brother a go? I'd be going with the best compressor wheels not experimenting with the GTX

ones. Just saying, your choice though.

personally, ill always go the proven GT3076 for its crazy whistling and its proven to be a great combo with an rb25/rb3025

Edited May 14, 2014 by AngryRB

[Lithium]

Funny you should say all that actually, it looks like you can get the FP-proprietory comp housing for the GT3073HTA as an option now - which we know sounds very much like a GT3076R (Mick_O's EVO with a 73HTA Green bolton sounds awesome!) and it's also more compact etc, meaning it should be able to fit that bit easier in the stock location. I have said it before, but the 3073HTA I think would be bungfizzingly fun on an RB25

[wolverine]

bungfizzingly fun

Kiwis like having fun with their bungs apparently....

[Lithium]

Kiwis like having fun with their bungs apparently....