Rb25 Non Neo Ignition Timing?

[ConnorOrcherton]

Hey everyone, new to the forum just trying to gather some information regarding what you are running ignition timing wise..

First off, here my current setup...

S2 Rb25det

Garret 3076r (.64)

Tial 38mm wastegate (mv series) wastegate is set to .75 bar

standard 370cc injectors

standard pump

Im running a haltech r32/33 platinum pro plug in play and i'm having some issues with knock...

If any of you have experience with the knock control could you tell me what your peramiters are?

What are your ignition tables like? what kind of ignition are you running through peak torque?

My injector duty cycle is getting to about 65% at .75 bar when i can get there but i'm hitting knock retard. My AFR's are constantly monitered and logged and i havnt been leaning out, but im unsure of how the standard pump fair's with that many more CFM coming from the bigger turbo.

I am not hitting a full knock ( knock light ) but am getting up to 6-7 * timing pulled around 160kpa 4000ish rpm.

If someone could screen shot me their ignition table i would much appreciate it.

Thanks in advance,

Connor

[Ben C34]

Why are you wasting your time with a stock pump and injectors with that turbo? They will hold you back.

Spend the money on a pump and injectors and get it dyno tuned before you kill the engine.

[ConnorOrcherton]

As i mentioned, the Duty cycle of the injectors is only reaching about 65%, and my air fuel ratios are quite within check. I am going to be running ID 1000's and im hoping to get away with a single 255lph pump.

I am simply looking for someones ignition map to reference to my own, I need to take the car across a body of water and about 200km inland of where i currently am and i'd like to have a safe tune to drive there with it.

One piece of information i have gotten through your reply is that you think stock pump will hold me back immediately. thank you.

[Ben C34]

It's extremely likely your stock pump will fail as they are getting on and it's not worth risking an engine by using an an old pump.

A walbro 255 will fit in easily and are cheap as.

PM Scottynm35 on here for a price.

What sort of timimg are you running?

How are you monitoring knock?

[jjman]

Correct me if I am wrong anybody here with more knowledge. But I am thinking that at .75 bar on a 3076 would be needing to use more than a 65% duty cycle on the stock injectors?

Otherwise, definitely replace the stock pump before doing anything more. They are incredibly prone to failure or dangerously poor flow on R33's by now. Many a failing or failed stock fuel pump have killed an R33. This may be your problem atm.

[GTSBoy]

Yuh, I'm having trouble understanding how you could be only running 65% duty cycle on standard injectors when you have a big turbo running more than stock boost.

The factory injectors should run out of puff by 220 rwkW, which is a sneeze for a GT3076. And it should be even lower than that when running the original fuel pump.

[Ben C34]

The way I read it is the op is at that duty cycle at 4000rpms which makes sense.

Obviously as revs rise the injectors will quickly run out of squirter.

[ConnorOrcherton]

thanks for the replies, I have a walbro ordered through my local supplier, ( I am in Canada by the way) and just received pricing on my id 1000's.

As for knock I am using the OEM knock sensors running through my haltech plug and play. I need to try and contact someone out there with the same ecu and try and figure out what their settings are for the knock control as mine is registering knock in area's where its pretty much impossible ( not full knock but it is starting to retard timing ) This area on the haltech is not as user friendly as most others.... The ignition map is VERY safe atm and im currently just daily driving the car to make sure it is all sound mechanically after the work i did with the turbo setup.

The knock sensors i believe are being triggered by my external opening aswell as other random noise factors and the knock control is set up very conservatively (safe motor <3 )

I don't have plans to dyno it until my injectors and pump are in. I appreciate the advice guys and clarification of my original thoughts.. really appreciate it

[GTSBoy]

Well, relying on the original knock sensors is probably your problem. They can give false knock readings very easily. The only solution here is to strap on some good knock detection equipment (either a good set of ears or a good knock monitor) and see if it really is knocking.

[jjman]

factory injectors should run out of puff by 220 rwkW, which is a sneeze for a GT3076.

great line

Final thought for the OP. Are you sure that your ignition timing is set correctly on the motor vs what you are intending on the Haltech?

Edited June 11, 2014 by jjman

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

first thing is first.. have you set your base timing exactly at 15 degrees using the CAS?

You can lock the timing with the Haltech so there's no need to adjust the idle, disconnect the TPS, etc.. like the stock ECU..

1. Load up the Haltech Software
2. Press F4 - this takes you to the Main Menu
3. Go to BASIC --> Ignition Tab
4. Go to Ignition Lock, and choose Enable
5. Perform normal CAS adjustment till timing is at 15
6. Disable the ignition lock

There's no way in hell the stock Haltech map will knock with just 0.8bar of boost.. the timing is very safe.. the only reason it would if your base timing is off OR something is going on with your AFRs

[ConnorOrcherton]

first thing is first.. have you set your base timing exactly at 15 degrees using the CAS?

You can lock the timing with the Haltech so there's no need to adjust the idle, disconnect the TPS, etc.. like the stock ECU..

1. Load up the Haltech Software
2. Press F4 - this takes you to the Main Menu
3. Go to BASIC --> Ignition Tab
4. Go to Ignition Lock, and choose Enable
5. Perform normal CAS adjustment till timing is at 15
6. Disable the ignition lock

There's no way in hell the stock Haltech map will knock with just 0.8bar of boost.. the timing is very safe.. the only reason it would if your base timing is off OR something is going on with your AFRs

Okay, now this has kind of confused me,... i set the timing in haltech to 15* and timed the cas at the crank markings to 15* , am i supposed to read what the ecu is telling me for ignition? or go off the crank...

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

you time the crank at 15 using the CAS.

you need to sync your ignition system to the ECU.. I have a feeling your CAS is not positioned properly

[ConnorOrcherton]

The engine is runing 15* timing. the computers ignition lock entry is 15*

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

The engine is runing 15* timing. the computers ignition lock entry is 15*

okay, make sure you turn off the ignition lock once you've checked the timing marks

however, makes no sense why it should knock with the haltech factory map.. the timing values are very safe.. unless you've got 1+ lean cylinders due to faulty injectors etc..

pull out your spark plugs and see if they're all consistent

[GTSBoy]

however, makes no sense why it should knock with the haltech factory map.. the timing values are very safe.. unless you've got 1+ lean cylinders due to faulty injectors etc..

Keep in mind it might not be knocking for real at all.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Keep in mind it might not be knocking for real at all.

of course, better not discount that idea.. the factory sensors aren't that great

do you have access to a standalone knock monitor such as a K-Mon or Phormula KS kit?

[Badgaz]

Mine had audible knock through headphones on a knock link at what the factory knock sensors were showing at 30. At Wot my max timing is 17 degrees at 7000rpm

[scotty nm35]

of course, better not discount that idea.. the factory sensors aren't that great

do you have access to a standalone knock monitor such as a K-Mon or Phormula KS kit?

I was looking at the Phormula kits, well priced. Are they as good as the Kmon? Anyone used one?

[Badgaz]

I've been looking at those as well... There are some good YouTube demonstrations of it.