My Concerns With Ethanol Fuel, Should I Be?

[Marko R1]

Hi guys,

I have a flex tune on my GTR and have been running e60 (as per ethanol sensor) and and it's down to less than e5 as I've used 98 on the last fill.

My catch can breathes to the atmosphere and have noticed since using ethanol that a small mist of vapour escape the catch can (it basically feeds off the 2 cam covers and vents underneath the car, no filter).

So I called my tuner and he said it's totally normal as ethanol attracts moisture. I then have my mate who races a GTR suggest I only use 98 as he has heard horror stories of race engines that have sat there for 8mths then cracked open and needs a complete overhaul.

My question is am I just being paranoid and do I need to take this on board? If so, oil change followed by emptying the catch can and then 98 only.

I start the car every 2 weeks when I can...I also wonder if moisture has entered the engine or oil? Then again, the catch can is just doing it's job by way of removing the crap moisture.

I'm keen to hear other ppls thoughts, ideas and hopefully some first hand experience

My GTR absolutely luvs ethanol!!!

[sultanaz]

Im in the same boat.
I personally am getting the car flex tuned to obviously suit both but i'm strictly only going to run E85 if im gna start it and drain the entire tank worth on a good drive or Use it for Drags, Track Etc...
98 for everyday driving for me...
I've heard of 5 cars in the last month that have ruined injectors due to bad batchs of United Fuel.
I dont like that ethonol attracts moisture.
Some people will say man up, go hard its good.. but im very cautious of the Effect of it.
Ethonols great for power, Smells great too but in my honest opinion a GTR on 98 Should have More then enough power for the streets... Honestly anything over 250 kw is plenty for the streets.

Im expecting in the 400's on e85 and high 300s on 98 but meh ill stick to whats safe !

[XRATED]

I just make sure every time I start my drift car that I warm it up to temp, warm enough to 'boil off' any water vapour in the oil or sitting in the engine. Short cold starts would be worst case for condensation build up.

[ARTZ]

I wouldn't be driving an ethanol car thats been siting that long without changing fluids..And any ethanol based high powered car should have its fluids and filters chaged more regularly than pulp cars, I know my fuel filters blocked up within 3000kms which is ridiculous...I've had fuel filters on pulp do 100,000kms+ on my work ute and still be fine...but for those of us interested in performance excessive maintenance is a given...

it seems to me Ethanol goes funny when left to sit, why im not 100% sure, I feel maybe it happens when mixed with condensation..

but here is the inside of my fuel rail after a few months of sitting around....

It had crystalized into a sugary substance that dissolves almost immediatly,,,but if this is in your fuel or oil and it was in my injectors...well it just makes me wonder..

I'd try not to leave it sitting to long anyway...I did leave it sit in my car for a over a month without starting at times and never had an issue though...well apart form blocked fuel filters and being hard to start sometimes, which i wonder if was due to this crystalization..

but it wouldn't hurt to just flush system with fuel if you are planning on leaving it sit for too long...and maybe a quick oil flush before you take it out for any hard driving,,

Better safe than sorry

[GTSBoy]

The idea that ethanol "attracts" moisture is a furphy. Sure, it is certainly more hygroscopic than petrol.....hydrocarbons pretty much cannot absorb water and ethanol is of course pretty much completely soluble in water, and vice versa. But face it.....a load of fuel sitting in a sealed fuel can or pretty close to sealed fuel tank (in car) is going to have precious bloody little chance to absorb water from the atmosphere. I mean....how much exchange of gases over the top of the liquid in such a container do you think there actually is?

The real story is that ethanol contains a buttload more hydrogen than petrol does. When it burns it therefore creates a buttload more water vapour (and less CO2). THAT'S where the water comes from. Water in the crankcase is from blowby gases. If you are using ethanol you should make sure you have a completely function positive crankcase ventilation system working.

[ido09s]

We run ours purely on E-Flex and when the oil pump broke it sat for 18 months with E-Flex in the tank. Obviously the oil got drained when i pulled the motor out but all i did was drain the fuel from the tank and put some fresh stuff in and it started straight up

The fuel filter has been in the car for years, the car probably only does 1000klms a year, and so far so good. Its just a standard Ryco filter that is inline between the tank pump and the surge tank. The car has braided hoses for the feeds and the standard return which has also been hassle free. Runs 3 044's and a set of 200cc ID's and again, no hassles

[gtr jet]

I've been running E85 in my car for almost 3 years now without an issue.

The longest the car sits is probably 3 weeks where it's starts without an issue. Always warmed up before a thrashing.

I dump the oil every 2-3 track days (roughly 6 months).

The catch can always has a milky residue in it and so does the oil sometimes but it's never been an issue.

Still running the same fuel filter which I know is a bad idea but I can't get the old one out so I have a new one sitting there for when I take it back to Racepace.

[scotty nm35]

As a daily my Stagea has never had any issues in 5 years, not something I would recommend for people running their cars once a month though as the fuel may sit in the tank for months.

I have seen most of the ethanol related faults on customers cars, nothing that can't be worked around now that ethanol rated components are available. If you run non rated pumps and injectors you are likely running on borrowed time as you would expect. I wouldn't trust the Ryco style filters, thats for sure, stick to 40 or less micron stainless filters if you want long term reliability.

This is exactly why I push the stainless body injectors, as most use iron in their construction and it will rust if not used consistently, or if they are removed and stored incorrectly. My Bosch 1000's are running fine still, but I don't expect them to continue running forever like OEM.

The sludgy oil in the engine is due to not heating the oil enough, you need to get it over 80 degrees for a while to evaporate the ethanol out of the oil.

My catch can is usually half full of water and ethanol, especially in winter. The oil absorbs water as condensation, and ethanol from running down the rings on cold starts, due to the massive quantities required to ignite at low temperature.

[boostn0199]

Have used e85 on my track car for the past few years used about once a month basically I just keep fuel tank at atleast 3/4 tank when sitting there, dont start it unless im going to get the oil up to temp, new oil before every track day and replace new ryco fuel filter every year and have had no issues.

[ARTZ]

Yeah was only when i left tank on empty i ever had starting issues

[Adz2332]

so is it better to drain the tank for it to sit for months on end for a track car or fill it 3/4 then leave it??

[r32-25t]

Leave it empty or better yet if it's going to sit around and you have a full flex tune run it on 98 almost down to empty before putting it into storage

But yes change your oil a bit more often and always get it nice and hot before shutting it down does wonders as well

[Adz2332]

itll be a straight out e85 tune... im going a fuel cell so wont be hard to empty it but whats the go with it in the lines pumps etc?

[boostn0199]

so is it better to drain the tank for it to sit for months on end for a track car or fill it 3/4 then leave it??

well depends how long were talking, if its a few months 3-4 then I wouldnt be worried about draining it and its really only winter that makes it really at its worse during the hotter times of the year its not really an issue, personally I have not seen any issues on my own setup inregards to pumps, lines injectors developing any issues and this was from maybe sitting for 6months. The only issue I have seen if you constantly start the car without getting oil to temp your oil will eventually to much e85 in it from the bores, so aslong as you take care of that you will be fine. But eitherway if its track car new oil before each event and you wont have a problem.

Edited June 18, 2014 by boostn0199

[SiR_RB]

100% eflex here

No issues, car sits for afew weeks without been started, but always starts up first go,

I just change fuel filter when I do my oil service, it's cheap anyways so why not

I always cut the filter up when I remove it and it looks good to me, no unusual particles or anything

Catch can is always empty too,

I run a started thermostat so oil temp sits at around 85-90degrees to evaporate the ethanol and moisture from the oil

Oil gets drained every 4-5000kms and is never milky

[Marko R1]

No real horror stories as such which gives me confidence, awesome feedback guys

What I've gained from this is that the engine must be warmed up to reduce vapour (if any) and regular oil changes which I do anyway every 5k or 6mths...I will from now on change the fuel filter with the oil or maybe even get a reusable filter which I had on my other GTR - I think it was eman Earls filter with removable gauze. Any suggestions on a good fuel filter?

ARTZ - have u thought about having those crystals tested to confirm the source?

[Aggroman]

running on eflex for 2yrs now, car sat there with 3/4 tank for 6 months. Didn't change oil as it was still looking fine and really zero f**ks given it started and drove the same as always

500kms, 2 months and 2 tanks later its still fine.

oil was Valvoline Racing Formula 50 25w-60 if you wanted to know. oil previous was motul 300v chrono which seemed to break down a bit and had some oil pressure nonsense a year or so ago when left to sit for 3+ months

[ARTZ]

so is it better to drain the tank for it to sit for months on end for a track car or fill it 3/4 then leave it??

up to you mate, I know some people do, i know some people don't...I dont think it makes much difference

personally I found the best way was to just fill up with fresh fuel if it had been left sitting for long periods...as it would run like crap with stale fuel..

[Marko R1]

I've heard Valvoline is good, Rob @ RIPS Racing swears by it. I'm running Castrol Edge 20w-60 and have been for the past 10yrs (just an old habit of mine)

[ARTZ]

ARTZ - have u thought about having those crystals tested to confirm the source?

I should've said, that rail was left out of the car for a few months wrapped in cling wrap...when I unwrapped it is when i discovered that..It was quite obviously residual fuel and it dissolved immediately, which I why i wonder if small quantities go stale when left to sit...And if maybe condensation was forming in that wrapping..

..