Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

Even the OP has stated that it is exhibiting both. I'm no suspension engineer, but you can see and hear that the car has corner entry and some mid corner understeer. And it seems like most of the oversteer is at corner exit. I think a more neutral setup will help alleviate both. But I agree with Neil, by making small changes, I think a lot could be gained. Such as some wheel alignment tweeks i.e. Some more positive caster up front or adjusting the ride height.

I am going to peg rear camber back to about 1 degree if this fixes the rear end grip then maybe i can adjust sway bars to reduce understeer (softer in the front or harder in the back although the links on the whiteline kit seem to only fit in some positions)

I use the standard factory sway bar links and have had the same problem trying to get them to fit the rear holes on the sway bars. Now I know the front ones are side specific and looking at them I think if you use right for left and visa-versa you can access the other holes. Not sure on the rears but give me a couple of days and I'll confirm it.

Cheers

Neil.

Yeah there is definitely some corner entry understeer and mid corner to exit oversteer. To me personally it feels like the oversteer is more the limiting factor because i cant step on the gas more to increase corner speed and exit speed.

However the entry understeer will be next on my list if i can dial out the oversteer by improving contact patch in the rear then i will work on sway bars and maybe some toe out in the front as suggested.

Have also been doing some reading on this site, very informative.http://turnfast.com/tech_handling/handling_tuningtable

I use the standard factory sway bar links and have had the same problem trying to get them to fit the rear holes on the sway bars. Now I know the front ones are side specific and looking at them I think if you use right for left and visa-versa you can access the other holes. Not sure on the rears but give me a couple of days and I'll confirm it.

Cheers

Neil.

Interesting please do let me know. I believe there was also a beefed up end links kit i did wonder if you had to get that to get all the adjustment.

Yea but your only running a 2 hole adjustable sway bar,,,I'm of the belief we are talking about the 4 hole puppies which for the links is a different situation all together. Your link is way badly bent and in my opinion would never fit our back 2 holes.

Here's 2 pics of mine and the same sided links will not adjust to the 2 rear holes. We might have to make rose jointed links to make it all fit properly,,,but I will on the weekend work some of it out and post my conclusions.

post-29-0-66844300-1403781386_thumb.jpg

post-29-0-17969800-1403781411_thumb.jpg

Cheers

Neil.

Set your centre of wheel to guard height at 340-350 mm. Make sure your bump stops are half the height of std.

Your wheel alignment is way to neutral. Toe out the front to 3mm or so (you may want more) and toe the rear in 1 mm as this will even out on acceleration. You might also find that with these settings and the correct tyre pressure you could stiffen your front bar.

Your set up is very similar to mine, and should be a lot more stable on the turn in and exit.

As Neil said make small changes write them down and keep a log of your opinions of the changes and cars feedback so you have history.

Enjoy.

Even the OP has stated that it is exhibiting both. I'm no suspension engineer, but you can see and hear that the car has corner entry and some mid corner understeer. And it seems like most of the oversteer is at corner exit. I think a more neutral setup will help alleviate both. But I agree with Neil, by making small changes, I think a lot could be gained. Such as some wheel alignment tweeks i.e. Some more positive caster up front or adjusting the ride height.

sounds like its just too high and being a boat :rofl:

Bump steer front and rear. I agree with an earlier comment about this.

Those pretty LCA and tie rod ends don't show true perspective but if they're running on different planes then it's going to do silly things as the suspension goes through its travel range.

Same thing goes for the rear.

Yea but your only running a 2 hole adjustable sway bar,,,I'm of the belief we are talking about the 4 hole puppies which for the links is a different situation all together. Your link is way badly bent and in my opinion would never fit our back 2 holes.

Here's 2 pics of mine and the same sided links will not adjust to the 2 rear holes. We might have to make rose jointed links to make it all fit properly,,,but I will on the weekend work some of it out and post my conclusions.

attachicon.gifpic164_01.jpg

attachicon.gifpic165_01.jpg

Cheers

Neil.

Mine is set to second softest of the 4 on the front i can move it one more adjustment forward. I cant access the front most or rear most.

Set your centre of wheel to guard height at 340-350 mm. Make sure your bump stops are half the height of std.

Your wheel alignment is way to neutral. Toe out the front to 3mm or so (you may want more) and toe the rear in 1 mm as this will even out on acceleration. You might also find that with these settings and the correct tyre pressure you could stiffen your front bar.

Your set up is very similar to mine, and should be a lot more stable on the turn in and exit.

As Neil said make small changes write them down and keep a log of your opinions of the changes and cars feedback so you have history.

Enjoy.

Cheers for that i will measure it up tonight so you can all have a laugh!

Should i cut down the standard bump stops?

Bump steer front and rear. I agree with an earlier comment about this.

Those pretty LCA and tie rod ends don't show true perspective but if they're running on different planes then it's going to do silly things as the suspension goes through its travel range.

Same thing goes for the rear.

Hopefully lowering will fix this when i originally set the ride height i did notice the arms were on a slight upwards angle from the wheel to chasis. I assume that level is optimal.

Unfortunately the car came with a fiberglass bumper. Nice and light but it protrudes quite far out the front and actually slants forward so the lowest point is right at the front edge not towards the wheels as with the standard bumper.

The further away (lower) from standard ride height, the more pronounced rear bump steer becomes.

It is countered by installing and adjusting rear adjustable links - the forward/upper ones sometimes referred to as "traction arms".

I never had a bump steer issue and front of my car was lower than most...I had bump stop issues, but not bump steer...

My car had Stock swaybars, all stock suspension arms, bilstein suspension...camber 3 and 1.5 just from lowering, toe set pretty much neutral, I think 1 degree of caster..17 x8,9 and 245/40, 255/40 tyres...It always handled great and exceeded my expectations..I know some people are doing quick laptimes with much the same setup too but better brakes and bigger balls...

my next step was sways bars and some extra caster, but I didnt see the need to do much more to it, it was simple and it worked...Not to stiff, not too soft..

The new owner said he has some issues with the front being too low, because he lives in the bush and has crappy roads though..guess it depends where you drive most and how good the roads you drive on are...But on the track and around Melbourne I never had an issue and my crossmemebr was maybe 120mm off the ground...I know it was just above legal height anyway..

OP was complaining about oversteer hence the comments about rear end adjustments and ride height.

Depending on what is fitted/changed (or not) it is possible to achieve bump steer ie. dynamic toe change as the suspension goes up/down at either end. Altered ride height does affect things.

Open to conjecture but I'd be looking into it if I was the OP. Harry was onto it early in this thread. Investigating and/or fixing it may mean having someone do it for him if he's not sure how.

With those spring rates I would be dropping the rear sway bar off totally. If it does roll a little then stiffen up the front bar, though I doubt it will.

Run about -1.0 rear camber with about 3-4mm toe in overall.

There is also an inherent flaw in the rear end design of the r33's when the tire travels from a drooped state to loaded state, the toe essentially becomes dynamic rather then staying at what you set it too statically when doing a wheel alignment.

  • Like 2

With those spring rates I would be dropping the rear sway bar off totally. If it does roll a little then stiffen up the front bar, though I doubt it will.

Run about -1.0 rear camber with about 3-4mm toe in overall.

There is also an inherent flaw in the rear end design of the r33's when the tire travels from a drooped state to loaded state, the toe essentially becomes dynamic rather then staying at what you set it too statically when doing a wheel alignment.

Interesting regarding dropping the rear sway bar, I will see how i go this weekend maybe drop of if the rear camber hasn't made a big difference.

Car is set to 340mm front and rear. Alignment set as follows:

Camber front -3.1 deg

Toe front -2.8 total

Camber rear -1 deg

Toe rear 2.5mm total

Running a test day this Sunday at Pukekohe, will post up the results next week.

What are your thoughts on removing vs adding weight into the rear. Is this going to increase or decrease oversteer. Ie if i leave my spare tyre in.

With those alignment settings you usually want 2-4mm toe out on the front, are you saying have 2.8mm of toe out or toe in?

Honestly at this level, dont worry about weight balance yet. If it was me I would be just pulling all the weight I can out to reduce overall weight. R33's are not the best circuit car, they are heavy and cumbersome....but they are fun!

  • Like 1

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • You have found the problem. The wire from the switch to the HB is shorted to earth. Now you have to physically find it and replace it. It won't be the switch, although following the steps above (and yes, where you ask, that is the light switch on the RHS of the binnacle) will rule it out for sure. Or not, if perhaps the switch has melted. But there's no route to earth inside the switch, so I can't see how it would.
    • I did read your post, a few times actually.    Done. Followed this step. [Negative probe should be on the cars chassis. Positive on the wire.]   Did this partially.. now that im reading this over, i only unplugged the LED lights. [Start as said above by unplugging everything (unplug the lights, and switches.] When you are talking about the switch, you're talking about the knob thing on the right side in the drivers seat right? If so, i need to take that apart?  [Now at the switch, there is a wire from the fuse, to the switch, so out your positive on that terminal. It should read open circuit. If it reads something, especially a stupid low value, the short is somewhere between the fuse and the switch.] At this point are you referring to the connector by the headlights?  [If that's fine, now put the positive probe on the wire that goes to the headlight (at the switch plug). If it reads stupid low, the fault is from the switch, to the headlight.] Did this. I can confirm that the LED lights aren't the issue [Another quick test, is take the whole LED light setup from the left, and plug it into the right side, does it still blow the fuse? If you put the right hand side led light setup on the left hand side wiring, does the left hand side wiring now blow?  If the blowing fuse swaps from right to left doing this, your LED lights are the issue.]
    • Hey was wondering if you ended up installing the R33 GTR speed sensor - I found one too and wanted to confirm it's a direct swap into the R34 6 speed?
    • After 23 years of owning a Skyline, finally had the latch go.  Followed this guide,  works like a dream again. Great Guide 👍
    • Hi all,   I’ve got the biggest lot of problems with my R33 GTS-T   It was a freshly rebuilt 25th anniversary RB25DET (plastic cas, neo cams) probably 6 years ago now   The engine was running so well but I fkd up badly and trusted someone I’d known for 10 years that was well known around Plazmaman for his welding and fab work. I added a lovely photo of some of his previous work. Not sure why my car was worked on by whoever did this shit     I’m normally someone who would never open myself up to something like this, I still can’t believe I did it. Trusting him literally fkd it all up for me. Everything has been a struggle, like it’s almost been 6 years that’s how much I’ve just on and off been trying to work it all out.    All I wanted was a car that danced down low, like full boost from around 3~3500rpm to redline, don’t really care what power it puts down (if it ever does) but I just wanted it to be quick to get on it.    He recommended the turbo to get, I picked Hypergear but he told me to get the front 4” with a T4 and 0.68 rear housing.    I was expecting all these beautiful welds, tidy fab work and paid for it to be ready to go to a tuner when I got it back.    I got a car back that was an absolute mess, I actually couldn’t believe it was my car anymore. I don’t think you could even call what he did welds, they’re disgusting.    So I stripped everything he touched off it and with every bolt I loosened it just got worse and worse.    I covered it and literally built and finished another car in the meantime but now it’s getting to the point where I really want my Skyline back.   Its a struggle because I paid him to do all this shit because I didn’t know how to and now I’ve had to try and figure it all out omg    Please excuse the bird shit horrible welds, I’ve got my show pony car and am so beyond dealing with this car I don’t even really care at this point.    If someone told me about what he did to my car I wouldn’t have believed them but it happened to me. It was unbelievable. He went missing, my car went missing, it came back missing parts, the straight af chassis rails bore the scars of being dragged up a trailer backwards, even the sandwich plate was bent. Everything was leaking and open to whatever fell into it, rounded off/ missing bolts, power steering oil and coolant everywhere, no gaskets, parts stolen off it, even managed to damage the sump pan.   Promised me he’d finish the car, knew what it meant to me, I paid him thousands and thousands just for him to trash it. He told me he was fully licensed and insured, come to find out he’d cancelled his ABN, so obviously no insurance. I had laid up insurance on the car and would’ve been covered but I was scared they would’ve written it off or because the business was no longer trading I’d still be liable.    He was supposed to:  New fully custom mild steam pipe exhaust manifold with turbo location moved from factory position to high forward mount. (I don’t know if it is a mild steam pipe, I’ve got a funny feeling the waste gate isn’t in a very good position and I don’t think the outlets off each cylinder are equal) 4” custom stainless steel dump with external gate (he re-plumbed it) Cut and shut OEM intake manifold with throttle reposition (I ended up doing the throttle reposition) Box in pod filter (left out) New 100cel catalytic converter (pretty sure it’s there but unsure if it’s 100cel) Front mount intercooler piping fabricated to suit (all smashed up and rusty holes where he was supposed to make it look standard where fmic piping passes through. I don’t even think my front bar is going to fit 🙄) Custom 5” intake pipe from pod to turbo (didn’t come with it so had to do something to make it work with the Z32 afm)   Engine: Full cylinder head service & machining  Brand new valves Precision upgraded spring kit Engine block honed New bearings  New piston rings  New ARP conrod bolt kit New ARP head studs Cometic head gasket VRS kit   ATR43SS2 ball bearing turbo 0.68 rear housing  Turbosmart 45mm external wastegate (got delivered to the fab bloke, I’ve got no idea what spring is in it, I’m assuming the one that came pre installed) Walbro 260 fuel pump  Nismo 740cc injectors (tested to 880) Spitfire coil packs GCG FMIC RB25DET manual 5 speed 4:11 rear diff   I’ve got an Apexi Power FC in it atm, I was hoping to just get it to operating temp to make sure everything was okay before towing to a tuner but it’s over-fuelling too much. I don’t think that’s going to happen so i think I’m going to get either a Link G4 or Haltech for it. What do you guys recommend? I can’t work out the power FC so just gonna give up on that one     It’s got an exhaust leak coming from somewhere I can’t see 🙄    The fuel pressure was steady but now it like drops from 40 to 20psi randomly (noticed this yesterday)    I’ll attach pics of the shit he put on my car and the engine bay now as it sits    I really just need some help, I need a tuner in Sydney I can trust, I’d like to be with the car while it’s being tuned if possible, I know it looks terrible but unfortunately I’ve just got to put up with it for now and fix the cosmetic stuff later   Do you guys think the manifolds are going to be okay? Or do I throw the exhaust manifold and try again?   I don’t even think these combinations are going to work tbh   I know everything I fitted was rated to be able to take at least 400kW but most rated higher    If you’ve gotten this far I really really appreciate it 🙏 I don’t mind if you trash me or the car, I made a rookie error and f**k I’ve paid for it. As you’ll see 🙄  
×
×
  • Create New...