R33 Gtst Track Build

[Dale FZ1]

Competed in the Qld Super Sprints State Championships last weekend.  Entered in the Modified Production >5000cc against a heap of LS powered Commodores.  Also in the Mod Prod category there were a few well presented and driven Nissans (S13, R32), BMW (E46 M3), and a Toyota Yaris.

Noticeably different feel to the earlier series events held in Autumn/Winter months with more daylight hours and generally higher ambients.

Car preps were limited to newer tyres and a shift to 295 width fronts.  And I played with the boost control during practice, achieving 18.5psi up from 16, with a bit quicker boost rise.

No suspension or brakes changes from the previous round.

Event format involved running two different versions of the Morgan Park circuit, K (3.0km) and D (1.5km).  3 fast laps with standing start.  Trhree runs on each circuit, over the Saturday and Sunday.  Finally, add the best two runs for an aggregate time to determine placings.  The longer K track is much faster, but places more emphasis on chassis and balance as it flows.  The D track is more hp oriented.

Short story, achieved a new PB on each one, 1.27.2 on K, 48.7 on D.  The aggregate time was comfortably quickest for >5000cc, and just pipped the S13 and E46 to be quickest Mod Prod also.  It was not an easy win to take - those guys pedalled hard.

Got a little in-car uploading that will be linked.

 

 

[Dale FZ1]

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[Dale FZ1]

Post-season car checks and looking at accumulated GPS and engine data logs underway.

I'm going to trial a smaller 10cm housing on the turbo -  currently TDO6H-25G.   Cheap swap, which should bring the threshold down hopefully 500-700rpm.  On-track logs showed difference from dyno, obviously a far more dynamic environment and it's just not jumping off the slower corners when at low-mid rpm. Lower threshold and quicker rise due to some wastegate tuning changes (thanks Mafia) would give a lot more mid range pull.  Currently it's so progressive that it feels very much like a big N/A motor.  Very traction friendly but ultimately a touch lazy.

The most recent in-car showed that yellow 180SX was far more capable in that area so perhaps that's all it requires in the short-mid term. 

[R31 drift pig]

Way to go Dale! Great results.

[Dale FZ1]

33 has been getting some attention over the past 12 months, finally about to get a run.

Turbo/manifold change, now with a Precision 6266 ball bearing, single scroll 0.84 and 50mm gate.  6boost manifold. Also updated from Vipec to a Link G4+, installed some Bosch pressure/temp sensors for fuel and oil, Motec LTC lambda input, new I/C piping and Wiggins clamps (china copies).  Catch can/crankcase ventilation was revised too.

Pretty happy with the results, built by me in my shed.  Budgets and skill sets did cause the timeline to stretch out a bit.

Fuel system upgraded with a single Walbro 460  in tank, custom tank lid with AN fittings and power terminals.

Things came together on the dyno without any worries.  Not wanting to put too much stress on the engine/turbo setup so it put down the numbers pretty easy.  The goal was for a broad/flat torque curve for traction, which we got.  Probably won't appeal to those interested in numbers, or feel that exciting to drive.  But it ought to be no-fuss and let me get on with driving. Installed a dash-mounted potentiometer for driver selectable boost, should be good for wet days.

Timing scatter is evident, and it's time to investigate crank trigger setups and ditch the OEM CAS.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Dale FZ1

[Dale FZ1]

A few shots of the gate position, dump/plumb back design, and a trial side pipe. 

Gate setup is about right.  I can change the unit in about 15 mins tops when cold. That's a big achievement in my books.  Also seems sized well to the application, and provides adequate boost control via the MAC.  Just working on gate pressure, it spikes and then bleeds back.  We will play with spring combinations in the future but generally fit for purpose.

Some people might handle the dB of a straight pipe, but found it's not for me.  Mods now underway to try a decent resonator to kill the bark.  Wait and see.  Would like to retain a short/light/simple system that can be installed without assistance. Minimum ground clearance achieved was 115mm, with the lagging fitted so all tucked up and tidy.

[Dale FZ1]

Shots of the fuel tank lid setup.  Overall quite happy, but word of warning there's a fair bit of effort to make all this work just to retain a factory tank.  For dedicated track use, I'd consider a fuel cell the most intelligent mod although I prefer the fuel sitting ahead of the rear axle.

Not all hose rated/purchased as submersible fuel hose performs as advertised either.  Go with Gates or Dayco.  Notice this stuff went soft within 48 hours of exposure, and blew off the push-lock fitting.  The second lesson is to build in a redundancy and use EFI hose clamps where there's pressure.

The jet-siphon setup seems to work well, drags fuel efficiently from the LHS saddle and drops it down to where the pump picks up.

[Dale FZ1]

Car got a run over the weekend.  Morgan Park C series super sprints, 1.5km track D.  Running old Hankook Z221 rubber.

Engine performance was in another league going from the Kinugawa to Precision (very predictably).  But does require a bit of on track tuning to maximise tractive capability. Essentially we will revise how boost ramps and hope to maintain drive rather than turning tyres. Big thank you to Mafia (JP Tuning) who overviewed engine performance with logging.  Hp increase definitely made the straight bits a lot shorter, and it was amazing to hit the limiter in 4th where that was never likely with the previous setup.

In spite of that, the Kinugawa still rates highly for value and it did/does seem to make good torque.  But the boost recovery response on gearchange is worlds apart.  Precision was straight back to max boost where the TD06 takes its time.

My revised catch can setup was ok, but will be making another revision asap to reinstate the drain back setup.  Heavy breathing and dropping sump levels during a run was a bit concerning for dropping oil pressure under brakes.

Weekend stopped early for me due to leaky brake master cylinders.  Still investigating the cause on that one, but no confidence in a long pedal meant I exercised discretion and braked super early.  Fix it and play harder next time, but it still improved on previous PB despite driving conservatively.

The NZ wiring cam trigger kit did the trick, and log traces showed massive improvement on the old worn CAS.  Mafia identified a couple of small errors, but nothing to cause concern at this point.  Going to call that upgrade a win, at least for RB engines that are running up to 7000 and 500rwhp. Be interested to see what the dyno says when we get time to run it again.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Dale FZ1

[Dale FZ1]

Reasonable start to the 2019 Morgan Park Super Sprints C Series.  K circuit (3.0km) in 1.25.3, knocked off 2 seconds from PB.  And improvements to the standing start first lap pace meant aggregate time for the 3 lap runs far better. First event I have cracked the top 10, at P9.  Happy with the achievement, given high ambients (35 degrees) and rusty driver not high commitment.  I'll put it down to newer rubber and a rear geometry tweak.

2018 only saw one event entered, got a shock with just how erratic the oiling system was performing after getting a Bosch motorsport pressure sensor installed and logging.  The data said bad things, and corrective (hopefully) action taken.   

RB26 cam covers with baffle kits, catch can drain back reinstalled, crankcase pressure sensor installed, and baffled/gated sump upgrade installed.  New main and big end bearings installed while the sump was out.  Oil pump inspected, all good to continue running.  Oil of choice now Penrite HPR30.

To be fair, bearings were from the original 30DET build, and had done service over consecutive seasons from 2011.  No journal damage, but big end bearings 4,5,6 were slightly scuffed and evidence of inadequate film strength.  Not too concerned about that, more focused on eliminating oil system related engine failure.

Data trace from Round 1/19 shows massive improvement, although oil pressure does fluctuate markedly.  Big deceleration events, and strong lateral G off corner exits were associated with the fluctuations but we're thinking the nature/magnitude/length of time won't hurt the bearings.  Next time engine out will be when we find out.

Post event comp check, max variation of 7psi across all cylinders so quite happy there.

Also for info of people interested in crankcase pressure, I saw a max of 2kPa blips on a couple of logs where inlet MAP was 270kPa.  Rest of the time it was zero.  The signs don't point towards any huge blowby issues, but I do have a 50mm breather on the catch can so that's all very free venting and hard to build meaningful pressure against the flow.

Later in the season I should have the VAG ignition coils installed, and get a log of EMAP vs boost.

Point of note, all the above is not focused at more power, just ensuring reliability at the power level we're running.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Dale FZ1

[rcs_888]

Good to still see you out and about mate. I actually took the car cover off the R34 the other day and was wondering how yours was going.

I have actually just started tinkering with mine again since the fuel system died on me and i like your lid you made for the stock tank. Im keeping stock tank because i like it being over the diff and it sits at floor pan height. Any fuel cell i fab will be behind rear axle and will be another 200-300mm heigher and i just dont see it being practical.. Im actually planninh on building my surge tank into the main tank lid tho. Kinda hard to describe but i might have to start getting my old thread back up and running.

[Dale FZ1]

8 hours ago, rcs_888 said:

 

I like your lid you made for the stock tank. Im keeping stock tank because i like it being over the diff and it sits at floor pan height. Any fuel cell i fab will be behind rear axle and will be another 200-300mm heigher and i just dont see it being practical.. Im actually planninh on building my surge tank into the main tank lid tho. Kinda hard to describe but i might have to start getting my old thread back up and running.

 

OEM tank is in the best position for distribution and safety.  I think a fuel cell is more practical for serviceability, but a hell of a lot of work to get right from a mounting and location standpoint.  Also better to have the tank divorced from the car's interior for safety + scrutineering ease. I'd use Holley fuel mat rather than go with a surge tank.

Definitely get your thread back up, and post a few pics.  

[rcs_888]

ive actually got 2 holley fuel mats one in each leg of the tank but basically if you take your lid im going to run a tube down from it inside the tank thats 120mm diameter put a bottom on it and have pumps inside, will do abit of a sketch later.

Once i have some pics ill post some up ive been tinkering on my patrol and been going out camping heaps latley

[Dale FZ1]

Time for updates.  Went with a completely different approach to sump baffling, used a few pics for inspiration and a lot of time in my dad's shed with spare block and crank.  Pics will largely show what approach taken.  We found there's a lot of different opinions out there, and I'm convinced nobody has the perfect understanding of what goes on in a wet sump RB engine and how to fix oil surge related pressure drops.

In essence, there's a drop in centre section with baffle "curtains" close to the sump floor to slow/stop slosh from side to side and forward/aft.  OEM pickup head was retained but repositioned roughly central to the sump pan, and 6mm from the sump floor (there was maths in deciding this figure)

Also a windage tray bolts up to the crank girdle, allowing about 8mm clearance from the rotating assembly, with oil allowed to fall through a series of slots.

Finally, blow-by gases in the crankcase are allowed to vent directly from the crankcase via 3/4 inch lines (located above the oil line) and out to atmosphere via "catch cans" that actually function as expansion tanks to slow air movement before venting.  The plan there was to reduce/stop the battle between air heading up to the cam covers and fighting the flow of oil returning from camshafts.

 

While the engine was apart, it got a big update/refresh with new bearings, forged pistons, rings, rods, head service, hone, decked, and nice CAT yellow paint to help spot the source of oil leaks.  Oil pump was inspected, deemed fit for service and used again.  2mm shim on the relief spring.

Took it to Morgan Park for run-in, and did 18 laps at moderate pace.  Logs showed massive improvement in oil control from the previous setup but still not happy, so we stopped and plan to rework that drop in baffle curtain section. Also considering the OEM pickup head needs to be changed. Michelin slicks do generate a fair bit of lateral grip, and it seems that there's a bit of oil climbing to induce cavitation.

Oil analysis done for later comparison with bearing inspection when the motor is back on a stand, did not detect bearing material.  Interesting to see what the eyes tell us.

Side-note to that venting: cam cover vent hoses leading to the catch can were completely dry when inspected.  So thinking that the sump vents are very functional.  Taking care of details is important though.  Diverter/baffling on one side, and not on the other.  One can was able to spit oil, leading us to conclude that work's needed to stop oil climbing into the vent under lateral load, then easy enough carried upwards 500mm to be ejected from the can.

Car is not too slow for a 2wd boat, beat my PB by 1.5 seconds with max 55% throttle and boost 120kpa. 

Currently assessing best course to address issues, but it's clear tyre grip plays a big role in this.  And stopping oil slosh in a wet sumped car takes very good understanding of the mechanical issues that occur, + just how dynamic the events inside the engine are when on track.  We're fortunate to have good data logging capabilities, and support at the track from JP Tuning.

 

[Dale FZ1]

VAG ignition coils are ready for install, made my own carrier bracket.  Quite a lot of work to get that one close to right.  Wiring-wise, we will change the sub-loom so that the whole thing comes off the engine with 4 retainer bolts and one harness connector.  I have no criticism of the Splitfire coils, but this change was all about easier service - and hopefully the spec sheets are right about stronger spark.

[Dale FZ1]

View of my drop in sump baffle, just gives better understanding of what work was done, shapes and materials used.  I wanted to use perforated mesh with plan to slow fluid movement rather than stop it.  Using a bit of information about wave barriers from coastal erosion control installations, and ballast controls in ships.  Similar principles, different applications.

Video of the second startup after refresh.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Nice work, be good to see your data with sump baffling.

When I reassembled my motor, I had to bin the 2WD windage tray as it doesnt suit the 4WD motor with an ASR sump modded for that motor.

How good are those NZ cam triggers? Car runs so much nicer and those random misfired are non-existent now for me. Had so many trigger count errors and what not with 2x Nissan CAS units.

Planning for more power or just jamming it with stronger parts so you can thrash it's mum without a care in the world?

[Dale FZ1]

I have only good things to say about the NZ Wiring trigger kit, and their customer service too for that matter.  Might not suit the purists who demand crank trigger, but this gear largely sorted the scatter issues that we encountered.  The data streams really show very little movement, at least for the rpm and power level we're running this thing at.

Upgraded internals were just something that I took the opportunity to do while it was apart.  Multiple seasons of thrashing on 25+ year old rods/bolts, and cast pistons told us that gear is very capable, but I had the opportunity and installed higher spec bits.  I'm not likely to chase more power (never did from the outset) or rpm.  All upgrades I've gone with have been primarily for reliability, and ease of servicing.

[AMR33]

Very nice work.

[No Crust Racing]

Great detail, nice work. 

[iruvyouskyrine]

Very good write up, mind showing some logs of the oil/crankcase pressure? And what fuel hat is that?