The Fuel Pump Thread

[The Mafia]

My issue with the dominator 1800s is the clause:

"Pump gas compatible for intermittent or under 90 degree F (32 deg C) ambient temperature use."

32 degrees is pretty damn low.

Useless then.. The fuel temp never goes below 40 degrees most of the time.

f**k, the temp would be higher than that before even starting the car.

[SiR_RB]

Agreed

[sneakey pete]

Sigh.

the more and more I look at it the more and more confused and unsure I get. Wonderful.

Upon further discussion with mike, his comment about the fuelab being loud was when it was at full bore (FPR disconnected) at idle/priming. Obviously you'd hope that the exhaust would drown that out at full bore. So maybe that's still an option.

In essence, I need a pump system that is capable of flowing 500lph (100% duty cycle on 1250cc's) at around 75psi (43.5psi +~30 of boost). That rules out a single walbro, and even the voltage boosted option above is not quite up there. There is a guy developing a twin intank hanger for the walbros so that may be another option.

450LPH in an ideal situation. single walbro may just be able to phone it in when running 18V...

Otherwise, surge tank, which I would really like to mount under the car. Few options for those around, most to suite Bosch style pumps, however the issue there is that they are a: generally all regarded as loud, B, generally all not E85 certified. the Holley sounded good until someone mentioned its temp rating, although that does sound a bit low and perhaps an error.
A surge tank with twin internal pumps is probably the go, however it'd need to be full custom (not necessarily a bad thing as other tanks may not fit in anyway) and would require a bit of work to make it fit. Pump choice becomes interesting. Walbro 460's would be a bit overkill, twin 255's maybe not enough, then there's all the DW stuff, AEM etc.

Fuel line wise, I've noticed a lot of people change the rail, and a fair few also change the lines. Most people seem to do it "because" though, i'm wondering if there is actually a definitive need to do this?

I mean, 500lph through a 5mm fuel line is ~7.5m/s which doesn't really seem to bad on the face of it. I know you're doing a bigger inlet (-6?) Jono, thoughts on why you did that?

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

well if you don't mind some electrical load then installed a fuel cooler & a thermofan switched at x temp by your ECU with the flex sensor sending back the fuel temperature.

[Scooby]

I run twin Walbro 255's, less current draw than the e85 pump and more flow. Still I had to upgrade the tank lid for the extra current draw and flow requirements. I ran twin feed lines, one to each rail on the VQ.

For 400+kw intank, single pump, the e85 Walbro is probably your best option, but you may have to re-pin the plug at a minimum. I have had issues with the DW pumps on ethanol, and will never use one again.

G'day Scotty what did you do to upgrade the tank lid? I'm running heavy gauge wire to a relay in my R32, and want to upgrade the wiring from there to the pump (above and below the lid) before fitting a Walbro but not sure if the stock plug pins will take it. 360rwkw @ 23psi so might not reach the upper levels of current draw enough to worry.

Anyone else please feel free to chime in.

Thanks

[whatsisname]

Sneaky Pete,

I'm running twin Walbro 460lph E85 pumps in tank using a combo of OEM and R33 GT-R pump mount hardware, alloy adapters and steel clamps lockwired closed.

Plus twin feed lines, filters and dual entry rail, 53psi base pressure (+ 25psi boost) and ID1000s. Pumps are wired via twin relays direct to the battery.

I've seen enough to know I would not use a DW pump .

[sneakey pete]

I'm leaning more towards the dual walbro option at the moment, the voltage booster is all well and good but very pricey.

Do you run any check valves and staged pumps etc?

[whatsisname]

No the pumps aren't staged, they run simultaneously.

[tricstar]

Fuelab. Virtually silent at idle, only running at something like 10% then when on boost obviously you can't hear the pump !

Wished I'd switched from the load Magnaflow years earlier.

No brainier.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

No the pumps aren't staged, they run simultaneously.

Great setup however I was under the impression the pumps need to be submerged.

[sneakey pete]

Fuelab. Virtually silent at idle, only running at something like 10% then when on boost obviously you can't hear the pump !

Wished I'd switched from the load Magnaflow years earlier.

No brainier.

Are you using one in your car currently?

could you post your setup if possible?

Noise out of these is a somewhat contentious issue from what i understand.. The one car i've been in with one wasn't great and the other guy up here who has put one in hasn't said it was silent.

[whatsisname]

Great setup however I was under the impression the pumps need to be submerged.

They are, the majority of the time.

The same in tank set-up (mix of both dual and single) exists in a few local cars through the same workshop. All continue to perform as expected, some over a number of years.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Did you just drill the cap and fed electrical bulk heads to it?

[tricstar]

Are you using one in your car currently?

could you post your setup if possible?

Noise out of these is a somewhat contentious issue from what i understand.. The one car i've been in with one wasn't great and the other guy up here who has put one in hasn't said it was silent.

Nah Pete. Sold that car about a year ago.

Should only be running at very low duty at idle. Suppose it depends on how is setup. Like very thing.

[MagicMikeZ32]

After 2000kms on the fuelab, I don't think the noise is much of an issue at all.

Something that is more critical, is how fast it ramps up the duty and how you control it.

[sneakey pete]

I need to come for a ride in the zed sometime mike, maybe then I can make a decision

[HarrisRacing]

Information.

http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/1404-fuel-pump-shootout/

http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/1405-fuel-pump-shootout-part-2/

I think this testing was done in the US so I believe these pumps might not flow as much as they indicate on their test bench ( )

I am going to be running my car very soon on a DW 300 and from the tests above with a base pressure of 43.5 psig and @ 20 more psig boost should be good for approximately 750 BHP. I have the Haltech pressure sensor on my fuel regulator so I can see pressure at the regulator in my logs. This is also going to my Haltech for engine protection in the event that I drop FP for any reason.

One thing I haven't seen talked about much is fuel flow through filters. I would highly recommend using GOOD (aftermarket) fuel filters on these cars. I don't believe the factory filters flow all that well (my "non scientific" tests just blowing air through a 40 micron and the factory filters was VASTLY different).

[GTRNUR]

Just thought I'd share my upgraded my fuel system setup that I instaled on the weekend. I used similar mounting to (whatsisname's) twin walbro 460 pump setup.

One pump mounted next to the OEM pickup, second pump mounted in a 50MM bottom capped PVC tube, in the OEM position. There is a hole through the bottom PVC cap for AN6 3/8th hose that runs to an OEM pickup in the OEM position.

Supply from the tank to rail is AN8, return is AN6.

Just inside the tank on the return I have an AN6 Y fitting, with a venturi pump on one side to retain the syphon pump function from the left side of the tank.

On the other side of the Y fitting, I run a 5/16th hose to the PVC container that holds the second pump. This ensures the pump is always able to prime via the 2 pump priming holes located in the bottom of the pump.

As with the twin in tank 044 setup, Im still using PWM fuel pump speed control based on injector duty cycle. With the slight change that I run both pumps all the time. 60% from idle increasing to 100% at 50% injector duty.

I decided that running both pumps all the time would be a good idea to prevent a pump from failing due to low usage, as was what happened with the old setup.

Fuel temps have dropped at least 5 degrees over the 044 pumps, probably more as I was driving with the low fuel light on when I last checked, working on running the tank to empty at the moment so I can swap fuel again. I was seeing 60 degrees C with the 044's.

Edited April 19, 2016 by GTRNUR

[Unkn0wn]

Ive been having some fun with my fuel pump install.

this is for a s13, but most of its universal.

i was actually in this thread for ideas on how to get larger pump feed wires into the pump.

I was using 15-amp wires to the relay in the rear of the car, that then used the stock wire to the pump carrier, as there was no way to change this.

after looking into the electrical connectors, i found these cheap, the pro flow surge tank fittings.

http://www.proflow.com.au/catalog/511510

VPW have them for like $10.

To remove the stock fitting i just drilled out the riveted type connection they have, with a rubber washer (keeping the washer)

then i had to drill out the hole to accommodate the new fitting.

I had to install two additional washers as there was not enough thread to get it tight.

so inside it looks like this = stock rubber washer > pro-flow o ring > pro-flow washer > 2 SS washers > Nut > fuel pump wire > nut.

as shown here >

On the top side i ended up with a relay near the battery, and 50 amp cable running directly to the pump, with a shared ground (i was getting a little to much voltage drop without the shared ground)

Edited April 21, 2016 by Unkn0wn

[Borci88]

A question on everyones thoughts about the Jet Pump in 33/34. Obviously it's known for syphoning the fuel from the left hand side of the tank over to the right where the pickup is. I know of a few cars now running aftermarket top hats with no jet/venturi pump in place. They can be racing at phillip island which is pretty high G Forces and can have less than a quarter of a tank and have zero problems with fueling. Any thoughts on this?