Jump to content
SAU Community

Innovate Motorsport Scg-1 Ebc And Wideband Kit

XGTRX

By XGTRX,
in Engines & Forced Induction

 Share

Recommended Posts

XKLABA Grand Master

XKLABA

Posted
Posted

Their a different type of O2 sensor ?

Do they not detect air fuel ratios and report them back to the computer ?

So how is having them straight out if the turbo not better then having them half way down the exhaust, if feeding signal to ECU and not just a gauge for you to look at ?

For the sack of this gauge it wouldn't matter where it was positioned, if only one sensor for a twin turbo setup then in the merge would be a good place for it, twin sensors then just before the merge, far enough up it so you don't get gases from the other turbo passing sensor

For my intended use for the O2 sensors is to feed the signal back to the ECU as my ECU will compensate from the signal so the closer to the engine the better for me, I would rather pay the difference in money to have better quality sensors that will bolt in to and are happy to be in the factory location then buy cheaper sensor and have to try and mount then near the end if the front pipe

XGTRX Veteran

XGTRX

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Don't you have to run these Bosch sensors in the collector just before the cat or they are inaccurate. I think they need to be at least 20cm from the turbo. I will probably weld the bung in the collector, could have one in each front pipe as XKLABA suggested. Might see if I can use the shift light as a lean warning light too. See how I go.

Oh yeah that's one of the articles I read....20 inches was the consensus with most wideband kits.. not 20cm like I mentioned..sorry for the inaccuracy.

Ben C34 Grand Master

Ben C34

Posted
Posted

Their a different type of O2 sensor ?

Do they not detect air fuel ratios and report them back to the computer ?

So how is having them straight out if the turbo not better then having them half way down the exhaust, if feeding signal to ECU and not just a gauge for you to look at ?

For the sack of this gauge it wouldn't matter where it was positioned, if only one sensor for a twin turbo setup then in the merge would be a good place for it, twin sensors then just before the merge, far enough up it so you don't get gases from the other turbo passing sensor

For my intended use for the O2 sensors is to feed the signal back to the ECU as my ECU will compensate from the signal so the closer to the engine the better for me, I would rather pay the difference in money to have better quality sensors that will bolt in to and are happy to be in the factory location then buy cheaper sensor and have to try and mount then near the end if the front pipe

You talking about the factory narrow band vs a wide band?

They are are different type of sensor.....

Anyway, I'm sure if I could be bother ed I could work out the time it takes for the exhaust to travel a meter inside your exhaust pipe at say 4000rpm, but I'm so sure it would be such a miniscule amount of time it wouldn't matter to anyone.

Being able to put the sensor into the factory location is slightly helpful for mounting it, but ad far as accuracy and speed goes I don't think there would be any noticeable difference in wither location.

The factory narrow band sensor is closer as it has to be warmed up by the exhaust. Not for accuracy.

Kinkstaah Grand Master

Kinkstaah

Posted
Posted

FWIW when I tested my wideband (in the cat housing just before the mesh) vs the Dyno's one at Chequered tuning, there was literally no difference in what they were reading, so the difference between the Cat and the exhaust pipes at the back of the car is near-zero.

  • Like 1
GTSBoy Grand Master

GTSBoy

Posted
Posted

If you have a functional cat, then the O2 signal should be at least a little different after the cat than before it. One of the major tasks of a cat converter is to reduce NOx back to N2 and O2. So even if you are running rich, and therefore there is effectively no O2 in the pre-cat gas stream, the ratio between unburnt fuel and O2 will change across the cat.

Of course, if your cat is dead or otherwise ineffective (100 cell cat anyone?) then it probably won't matter so much.

Missileman Veteran

Missileman

Posted
Posted

Because the difference is so small it has no real impact on the tune, the tunner will have a ballpark ratio he will be aiming for and, then it's a matter of listening for knock whist increasing the timing.

  • Like 1
Piggaz Grand Master

Piggaz

Posted
Posted

I have always wondered why not use it after the cat because given that a cat removes some impurities wouldn't the sensor run cleaner?

I have run my wideband with the sensor after the cat. Sent the readings all over the place, particularly light throttle would jump around like it was on a pogo stick. Moved the sensor infront or the cat and it was sweet.

scotty nm35 Grand Master

scotty nm35

Posted
Posted

Because right after the cat is too hot I would imagine. By the exhaust tip it has cooled down enough, and will only read a little leaner, which means the engine is a little richer. No big deal.

  • 2 months later...
XGTRX Veteran

XGTRX

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Well just an update>

Did the install and very impressed with the unit so far.

Bit of mucking around with the relay wiring and seeing that the rear seats were out I ran a 4G wire from the negative terminal to the engine bay and ran the main earths to it.

Mounted the gauge to the dash just above the wiper stalk and the solenoid and map sensor in the engine bay.

Did all the programming through the gauge and it was the easiest menu system I have ever seen.

Did the free air calibration for the o2 sensor just a matter of switching the ignition with the sensor disconnected and waiting for the prompt, then plugged it back in and powered the unit and the cal was performed, the plugged it into the exhaust...done.

Then set up the boost cut to 20psi until i put it on the dyno not that you really need to dyno it. And set 100% cut which means it cuts to sping pressure or 9psi.

Then set the spring pressure to 9psi, They recommend 1-2 psi below the actuator spring pressure to prevent boost spikes.

Then set the boost cut at afr so I set 10psi at 12.9 afr. What it does is if boost is above 10psi and afr is12.9 or more then the the boost will be cut to spring pressure (9 psi).

Slowing increased the duty cycle to achieve about 18 psi.

Didnt play with the gain yet.

Driving around for a week or so and works very well. Dispay is nice and clear and when solenoid is working it dispays the duty cycle. Noticed instantly that there was a qicker build up of boost at about the 6-12 psi range probably due to the actuator remaining closed.

So now going to run the 5V output to the ecu and program it to cut ignition if it goes lean, also set up a warning LED on the gauge that gets triggered by the ecu.

Interesting to note to is that the unit has triggered a boost cut a couple of times at about 15psi at wot, So what happens is that the boost drops to 9psi and then builds back up. Suprisingly gently too. So I will see what happens on the dyno and then have a look at the ecu log.

Again just played with the settings as I was not really interested in getting it spot on, just wanted to make sure it did what it was meant to do and so far very impressed.

Edited by XGTRX
  • Like 1
  • 5 months later...
Aqua Rising Star

Aqua

Posted
Posted

Hows the SCG-1 unit going? Also does the peak hold function holds both max afr and boost readings at the same time?

I am quite interested in getting this as I want an afr gauge, an electronic boost controller and a better boost gauge. (R34 MFD is only displaying the boost in kpa/bar and only up to 2 bar)

But I actually have a haltech platinum pro ecu and can probably just wired up some gauges to display the info without extra sensors... so I just wanna see if its worth it haha.

XGTRX Veteran

XGTRX

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Hows the SCG-1 unit going? Also does the peak hold function holds both max afr and boost readings at the same time?

As above I am very impressed with the unit. Sorry not sure what you mean by this but if you are asking if it holds boost right up to the shift point, yes it does and if it drops off you can manage it by adjusting the gain function. Please explain further if I didn't answer this correctly. Thanks mate.

Aqua Rising Star

Aqua

Posted
Posted

As above I am very impressed with the unit. Sorry not sure what you mean by this but if you are asking if it holds boost right up to the shift point, yes it does and if it drops off you can manage it by adjusting the gain function. Please explain further if I didn't answer this correctly. Thanks mate.

Thanks for the reply!

hmm with the peak hold function, you can look back and see what the highest boost was after a run. (the gauge holds the peak record of the boost)

does it only work for the boost? or both boost and afr?

XGTRX Veteran

XGTRX

Posted
  • Author
Posted

The only logging it has is in the log works program on a pc. You can log while you are connected to a notebook and save the data for review. It will plot a graph over time or rpm (x axis) of boost and afr (y axis). When you hover the mouse over a point it will give you the value summary. Hope this helps.

  • 4 years later...
XGTRX Veteran

XGTRX

Posted
  • Author
Posted
3 hours ago, elle76 said:

Any uppdates about how the SCG-1 has performed these years? Looking to buy one for my carburetor turbo build as the main boost controller. Anything to think about before buying one?

/ a random Swede.

 

 

It's a good unit, does everything it claims well.

Good boost control, good boost cut in a lean condition, good logging and a 5v output for ECU integration.

No complaints.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing


  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • Duncan
      R33 GTR lift points for hoist

      By Duncan · Posted

      Your off site links didn't work for me, and in any case it is easier for forum members if you post the pic directly either as an attachment or a link so the information is all in one place. That aside, the sills are the correct place to lift the car, whether with the factory jack or a hoist. Yes you should use rubber blocks with a slit for the seam on a hoist to avoid bending the pinch weld (where yours is currently bent, just bend it back if possible eg vicegrips), and be aware of the height you need in the blocks to clear any sill extensions to the hoist arms as it lifts If what you are doing needs access to the sills, the rear subframe bush would also be strong and secure. I'm not sure what you mean by sidemember (maybe same part I mean by sills) but be careful that your front support point is not too far back as the car is very front heavy and could overbalance.
    • AdiR34
      R34 GTT front hood lip

      By AdiR34 · Posted

      Here's my first iteration - white duct tape so color is off, but this is just a straight line across the bonnet lip. From a geometry standpoint, this is probably closest to what a GTR has. Next up is some $5 white pearl vinyl and some rubber door sill trim, applied to the BACK of the bonnet lip. It's more accurate placement to the GTR, but also follows the body lines on this setup a bit more. Couple more pics on this config incoming: Again, a $5 vinyl and rubber job, it's  POC still and not how I'm gonna run this part. But one thing I'll note is that the black trim does need to "straighten out" a bit, and instead of going completely along the line of the bonnet lip, might be better suited to wrap over the "horns" of the bonnet lip, giving it a less aggressive curve up at the ends.  The correct way to do this would be to paint it body-matched and then decide how you want to make the black line. If you used paint or a pinstripe, you could have the black line go straight to the corner of the headlight where the rubber strip typically meets the headlight on a GTR.   Hope this helps!
    • Sxnjeet
      R34 wont start after swap :(

      By Sxnjeet · Posted

      I know this is a super old topic, but what ended up being the problem?
    • JarrettL
      r34 Skyline 25 Gt four GTR conversion (ENR34)

      By JarrettL · Posted

      I know this is an old thread but I have a particular attachment to the ENR34, so I don't think additional content hurts. For starters, I agree with everyone here in that the performance of a stock R34 GTR is a pretty low bar and one that you're going to spend a lot of money "matching". Now if you're willing to deviate from that template as your goal, you'll be much better off and enjoy the car much more. The engine in the NA R34s is a real kick in the nuts in terms of upgradability compared to previous generation NA cars. The NA heads on the RB2X NEOs have MUCH smaller intake port cross sections and are not compatible with any of the aftermarket forward-facing manifolds available for the RB25DET. This can be remedied with a RB25DET NEO head, but those are expensive relative to what they are. A full long-block from a turbo AWD Stagea is generally a better value and will run you about $4000 USD to get it to you. This will get you the stronger RB26DETT rods, as well. That would give you a base to build off of to be safe in the 400whp range. Not shooting for the moon, but if the stock R34 was your bar, this engine would buy you enough to be just North of stock GTR power. A forward facing manifold would allow for the easiest method toward using Bosch EV14 format injectors such as those from Injector Dynamics and FIC, to name a couple. People hate them because they're copies, but Greddy fakes can be had for around $300 USD. With what the fuel rail, regulator, injectors, and the rail adds, figure $2000 USD for the whole setup including the manifold. With the OEM brackets and a bit of trimming to the ends of the lower frame rails, the OEM intercooler mounting brackets can be used to mount an OEM GTR intercooler, or an aftermarket one made for a GTR. Those are handy vs a universale due to the angles that the end tanks have on them. Then your plumbing become super straightforward at that point despite having to cut a hole where the battery is an a matching one on the other side for the pipes. Battery can go to the trunk. I'd round up to a healthy $2000 USD here too (maybe even a tiny more) to allow for a nice aftermarket unit and some pipe fabrication. Or if you can find someone that's upgrading to something larger, the used market comes in clutch here for a decent savings. I won't even get into turbo sizing as that's something that would be for yourself to determine. HOWEVER, for the purposes of your stated goals, a Borg Warner 7064 with an internal wastegate would be a perfect spooler and would make stock GTR power easily. It would also bolt up to your OEM manifold (that would come with the DET you purchased a couple steps above) if it were ordered with a T3 flange. More with adequate fuel. If you can stick with the OEM exhaust manifold then expect to be in the whole about $6000 USD for decent turbo like the one suggested, a down pipe, new O2, and full exhaust to mate up, and upgrades to the integrated BOV in an EFR or a standalone BOV for a different turbo, as well as an aftermarket IWG (internal waste gate). Those last two are definitely optional and unnecessary. All of this stuff above does you no good without any way of tuning and or monitoring the engine. Bite the bullet on a standalone engine management solution. If your experience with wiring is limited, you're going to have to hand it off to someone else, though. Unfortunately, the adapter/patch harnesses available are typically made around the GTT which does not include AWD, and the GTR, which integrates into a lot of chassis features that aren't present in your wiring interface. So the ENR34 is the oddball. So you'll want to expand a bit on your selection and find an ECU that's capable of running the ATTESA pump also. I have a Link Thunder, but you don't need quite that much ECU to accommodate that. You WILL need someone with the know-how to tune it and code those features into whatever software it uses. And to wire it up. This will be your most significant expense. Call it $6000 USD with an ECU, an okay wiring job (no motorsport grade at this price), aftermarket triggers and R35 coils, and the time it takes to tune the ECU with added features (electronic boost control solenoid, MAP, IAT, the new triggers, and ATTESA) and don't be surprised if it's more if you want better work done. Grab a clutch made for any RB pull transmission R32/R33GTR made for the power handling capacity you're looking for. Budget $1500 USD for a new good one. That's about $20,000 USD for an engine you've upgraded yourself and had wired and tuned by someone else. That's no brakes (ENR34 brakes are pathetic), suspension (again, pathetic), or wheels and tires. So you're pretty spot on in terms of spending $30,000 USD extra on the car just to get it to perform a little better than a stock R34 GTR while looking like a bone stock ENR34 with some wheels and suspension mods. That doesn't include fluids, maintenance items, gaskets/seals, repairs needed or anything else discovered along the way. But you'll have a car you can take to the track and have fun without worrying as much about nicks and dings.  
    • Sxnjeet
      Another Crank No start thread - r34 rb20 neo + t

      By Sxnjeet · Posted

      Okay so, please read this. car started and ran fine. got my tuned ecu by RSenthalpy, did a bunch of pulls to test it out and finally drive the car after half a year of it just sitting and idling at most. Everything was good, thing ran flawlessly and had so much power, didn't feel slower than a Prius anymore. Parked it back and turned it off.  Next day, I install an AFR and start the car. Didn't wire anything to the ecu. Just gauge.  Car started, but died out in about a minute. I figured it was cause my car was on a lift and the fuel was really low and old. I add 5 gallons of fuel, still cranks but no start. I remove all AFR wiring (tapped into double din acc and power wires but there was a nest of wiring there so I was worried I messed something up. tried to put it back to how it was prior to afr install.) Still cranks no start. Changed spark plugs with brand new ones Changed fuel pump with a new one (verified working) Did compression test , compression came back all at 150ish. All fuses are good, Relay seemed good but ill double check by switching similar relays around. Verified MAF is working - Ended up getting curious as to why fuel pump is not priming when ignition is on, so I cut the fuel pump ground and power and connected them directly to a portable jumper. I also disconnected fuel line to fuel rail to verify fuel is being sent. So with direct jumper power, the fuel pump turns on and shot gas everywhere through the fuel pipe that I had disconnected, so ny doing that, I verified no clogs in fuel lines or filter. - Tried starting the car with that jumper directly wired to power and ground, but car still did not start. I'm guessing its a CAS issue but im a little scared to check it without messing up timing or anything else since I actually dont understand how to check CAS lol. If anyone has any other suggestions or recommendations , please let me know.
×
×
  • Create New...