Wheel Alignment Question, Car Feeling More Skittish

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

they need to be shot, 2 degrees of castor? come on

[Nismo 3.2ish]

OK I will try this.

Is there a combination of Caster, Camber and Toe for a R34GTR that works the best for a street car car.

Any help would be appreciated as I will be changing my tyres soon and would like to get an alignment that suites my car.

[Duncan]

actually, first thing to know is that it is very normal to have nasty tramlining with such big tyres on the front....they ill tend to follow the road contours wherever they go. so there will be only so much you can do about that.

as for a general alignment, it is the same as any other car for road use. about 1mm toe in and 0.5 camber at the rear, and whatever you get for camber at the front, and toe in to match minimising tyre wear. caster and front camber is not adjustable standard

[KiwiRS4T]

OK I will try this.

Is there a combination of Caster, Camber and Toe for a R34GTR that works the best for a street car car.

Any help would be appreciated as I will be changing my tyres soon and would like to get an alignment that suites my car.

OK here's my contribution - others may have a different view:

Caster 7deg

Camber 1.5deg neg Front

Camber 1.0deg neg rear

Don't know what toe would work on your car.

Although just saw Duncan's post and as he says not much is adjustable from stock parts - just toe in and and small amount of rear camber

BTW if you do have adjustable camber arms and have a lot of camber (say 3deg) dialed in it will tippy toe in a straight line and feel better on cornering.

[Nismo 3.2ish]

Thanks fellas

Started reading up on this and it seems a topic that has many different answers, maybe trial and error ?

The wide tyres seem to be a major factor to this problem and as I am going from the 255 to 265 it is going to increase this crappy problem. These country roads are fun but they want to pull you all over the place. Guess it is just keep your mind on the job

Had 255s on my 350GT RWD and nothing like it is with the R34GTR AWD

I will make some notes and ask them to do what they can to help when I change my tyres and hope for the best. But I will keep the work sheet and once I see how the cars reacting I will post it and love to minimize the tramlining

Do awd cars magnify this tramlining ?

[niZmO_Man]

Stretched sidewalls may contribute.

[Nismo 3.2ish]

Stretched sidewalls may contribute.

Hope so, then maybe the 265s will be a little better, Yokohama recommend the 265 AD08Rs for the Advan 10" rims

[V28VX37]

Semi related, anyone know a good affordable wheel alignment shop in inner Melbourne? Like <$150 but who still know their way around adjustable arms etc.?

I know I know good and cheap are mutually exclusive but worth a shot

[Nismo 3.2ish]

Like most things, I guess there is a combination that helps lessen the severity of the tramlining,at the wrong time it could be more than annoying

I wonder if having a Quaife front diff and modifying the tranny added to this problem as it seems a little worse now ?

Any good alignment shops in the MId North Coast ?

Any opinions of Bob Jane Newcastle. They were friendly and efficient but as an alignment specialist, I do not know.

As for good and cheap, I remember a lady back in the day that was worth a shot or 2

[Kinkstaah]

Semi related, anyone know a good affordable wheel alignment shop in inner Melbourne? Like <$150 but who still know their way around adjustable arms etc.?

I know I know good and cheap are mutually exclusive but worth a shot

Traction Tyres in Rowville.

x111111111ty.

Have read that Tyrepower North Melbourne are also good.

That'd satisfy the "inner Melbourne" part of your post

[V28VX37]

Traction Tyres in Rowville.

x111111111ty.

Have read that Tyrepower North Melbourne are also good.

That'd satisfy the "inner Melbourne" part of your post

Thanks mate I'll give Tyrepower a go!

[sonicz]

I've gone through a fair bit of different toe in/out and camber settings growing up. Big numbers are not worth it unless your in a V8 supercar race team.

I have learned the best setting and the easiest on your car is 0/0 toe on the front, and a touch of toe in on the rear for stability, I'm talking hardly any, just less than 1mm. The car will drive a lot more neutral and its easier on your wheel bearings and tyres. Just think toe in and out is making your tyres point in a different direction to the way they are spinning which is pretty ludicrous really.

As for camber, anything more than -1 in the rear will cause it to have less grip and oversteer in the wet like crazy. I had all factory suspension arms which had me at about 1.7 neg camber for some reason with stock springs, went to adjustable hardrace, set it to -1 and and got masses of more grip and stability from the rear.

[Nismo 3.2ish]

I've gone through a fair bit of different toe in/out and camber settings growing up. Big numbers are not worth it unless your in a V8 supercar race team.

I have learned the best setting and the easiest on your car is 0/0 toe on the front, and a touch of toe in on the rear for stability, I'm talking hardly any, just less than 1mm. The car will drive a lot more neutral and its easier on your wheel bearings and tyres. Just think toe in and out is making your tyres point in a different direction to the way they are spinning which is pretty ludicrous really.

As for camber, anything more than -1 in the rear will cause it to have less grip and oversteer in the wet like crazy. I had all factory suspension arms which had me at about 1.7 neg camber for some reason with stock springs, went to adjustable hardrace, set it to -1 and and got masses of more grip and stability from the rear.

You are talking about AWD ?

I am only learning about this and what you are saying is what I am starting to think is something to try from what I have read so far, or at least ask them about when I change my tyres and get an alignment .

I was going to ask if these guesstimations could help with the tramlining, front 0-0 toe , rear, very little ? very small amount of negative Camber -0.5 to -1

Castor I am not sure of this but maybe 5-6 Ds

Maybe what I am saying is crap but I have to start somewhere and still have a month or so before I have to do it

[GTSBoy]

Zero front toe static will become toe out when the suspension is being pushed back by the road when moving forwards. Will still tend to tramline a bit. Probably still would even with some toe in. So not worth worrying about - you're not going to get rid of the tramlining. Zero toe at the front is a good recommendation.

All the rest of Sonicz' recommendations are valid, and it doesn't matter whether AWD or RWD either.

[Nismo 3.2ish]

Zero front toe static will become toe out when the suspension is being pushed back by the road when moving forwards. Will still tend to tramline a bit. Probably still would even with some toe in. So not worth worrying about - you're not going to get rid of the tramlining. Zero toe at the front is a good recommendation.

All the rest of Sonicz' recommendations are valid, and it doesn't matter whether AWD or RWD either.

If you were trying to minimize tramlining for a street car how would you set the alignment

I think I will have the steering checked in case there are some worn parts.

Maybe when overtaking and being on a different road angle the alignment settings would be off, because the road surface is slopping the other way and this makes the tramlining feel more violent , if that makes any sense ?? ( I say this because I read that some alignments take the road slope into account )

Maybe it is the situation that makes it feel more violent ,especially when it pulls you towards the other car. Stuffed if I know, the more I read the more confused I am LOL

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

get some adjustable castor bushes OR new castor arms, dial in around 8 degrees of castor and run some toe in at the front and toe in at the rear too.. I personally run zero toe at the front and 1mm toe in at the rears either side.

[Nismo 3.2ish]

get some adjustable castor bushes OR new castor arms, dial in around 8 degrees of castor and run some toe in at the front and toe in at the rear too.. I personally run zero toe at the front and 1mm toe in at the rears either side.

Thanks I will check out the castor situation after or when I am getting the new tyres on.

Bit confused with the Toe, you say run some toe and then tell me you do what I was thinking of doing and you run zero in the front ?

[Kinkstaah]

Interesting points, here is a set of suspension settings I was given (knowing very little about alignment, I've used them)

Are they ... good? Bad? Horrible?

Front

Camber = -1mm to -1.5mm

Castor = +7 deg

Front toe = 0 / Zero

Rear

Camber = -0.75mm to -1mm

Toe = -2mm in on both sides

Noone ever questioned these settings (incl the suspension shop I provided them to)

Still keen to hear if they're good/bad/indifferent/you'll get 1000kms out of a set of tyres on them, etc

[GTSBoy]

If you were trying to minimize tramlining for a street car how would you set the alignment

Maybe when overtaking and being on a different road angle the alignment settings would be off, because the road surface is slopping the other way and this makes the tramlining feel more violent , if that makes any sense ?? ( I say this because I read that some alignments take the road slope into account )

Maybe it is the situation that makes it feel more violent ,especially when it pulls you towards the other car. Stuffed if I know, the more I read the more confused I am LOL

To minimise tramlining you need to minimise wheel camber and run less than zero toe (ie, run a little toe in). Caster I'm not so sure about. More caster gives a stronger self centering effect to the steering, but whether it has a strong effect on tramlining behaviour is not so clear to me.

EVERY street wheel alignment would ideally take into consideration that we drive on the left hand side of roads that have camber. Therefore you want to set the front caster angles such that the car wants to pull to the right ever so slightly, which is UP the camber, to stop it wanting to drift downslope and off the road. Of course, when you're on the other side of the road overtaking, then the wheel alignment and the road camber are going to work together to make it pull to the right. But that shouldn't be confused with tramlining. Tramlining is where the tyres grab hold of profiles in the road surface that are at a smaller scale than the road's main camber profile and then steer the car.

get some adjustable castor bushes OR new castor arms, dial in around 8 degrees of castor and run some toe in at the front and toe in at the rear too.. I personally run zero toe at the front and 1mm toe in at the rears either side.

Be aware that R chassis cars are not designed to have that much caster wound in to them and it loads up the bushes in the upper and lower arms a lot. Worse on R32s, but still an issue on the later cars.

Thanks I will check out the castor situation after or when I am getting the new tyres on.

Bit confused with the Toe, you say run some toe and then tell me you do what I was thinking of doing and you run zero in the front ?

He was suggesting that you run some toe-in in order to minimise tramlining behaviour, while saying that he runs zero toe (because he doesn't care about/suffer from tramlining).

Interesting points, here is a set of suspension settings I was given (knowing very little about alignment, I've used them)

Are they ... good? Bad? Horrible?

Front

Camber = -1mm to -1.5mm

Castor = +7 deg

Front toe = 0 / Zero

Rear

Camber = -0.75mm to -1mm

Toe = -2mm in on both sides

Noone ever questioned these settings (incl the suspension shop I provided them to)

Still keen to hear if they're good/bad/indifferent/you'll get 1000kms out of a set of tyres on them, etc

Those settings are fine except I would use less toe-in on the rear. That amount of toe-in will make the rear very stable - it will drag the rear end around like an anchor.

The only other thing to say is that hopefully the camber numbers front and rear are actually degrees, and not millimetres, because degrees make sense and mm don't.

Edited March 31, 2015 by GTSBoy

[Nismo 3.2ish]

As my next alignment is free I am thinking of trying

Front

Toe = zero zero

Camber = Zero Zero, or very little

Castor = + 6 deg

Back

Toe = zero zero

camber= zero zero, or very little

castor =+ 6 Deg

Drive it and see how it feels and then I have something to work off so I can tell them how it is driving,then go and have it done by a quality shop , :unsure: