Anti Lag Types And Setup

[MJTru]

Hi guys I would like to take some time to talk about anti lag systems.

From what I have read around here most of the top guys don't like it do to the damaging affects on engine and turbos.

I would have to say all of that makes sense and it shouldn't be done for street use, or to Wow your friends, but if the prize is is big enough, let's say like 20k plus it's worth the try if not just once.

For me I'm really interested in the system for drag racing GTR.

From what I see ALS can be safe went the system is used is right. In short one of the systems I came across is the system where a valve is used to bypass air into the exhaust controlled by the ecu and a turbine speed sensor is used to monitor turbo speed, and lastly a normal injector is used to inject fuel into the turbine housing. The ecu controls the whole process.

From what I hear this is not the bang bang (als) system that is commonly the system that kills turbo as fast and engine components.

I'm at work and will continue this topic once I reach home.

[KiwiRS4T]

Don't know much about the "how" but I have been watching a fair bit of rallycross which involves 4 lap sprint races so it is very important to get off the line quickly and try to be first into the corner and ALL the cars use anti lag.

[MJTru]

I agree everyone uses it in rally. But I believe in rally it's always for a long time been the bang bang type of als. That method uses the ignition retard method. I'm interested in the method I mentioned above. I'm willing to give it a try. I can remember looking at my haltech ps2000. And it had a rally style anti lag, and another type I think, that was for drag racing.

I have been reading from theis morning on the subject, and will soon try one. I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction. I'm looking for some diagrams to study.

[Hadouken]

If you have a haltech then just use the launch control it has built in. Its not the bang bang one haha

[Hadouken]

Or you know. You use your right foot to get the right amount of revs to launch. But each to their own

[jet_r31]

2 step/launch controller does the job on most setups...

[jet_r31]

Or you know. You use your right foot to get the right amount of revs to launch. But each to their own

if you drag race..its a f**king nightmare trying to do that..its not consistent at all ...plus it makes no boost that way...so its harder to pull the car out of the hole

and it bogs more..

cheers

darren

[kaneryan]

you are right it doesnt build boost, but its quite easy to to hold revs at a certain RPM, but the aim of the topic is to compare antilag setups. i have had both, a bee*r limiter - add on (bang bang) type and yes as it was fantastic to hear it backfire its probably not the best idea i used it maybe 5 times, i know have a haltech with a built in launch control. it feels much nicer and of course its made to be used and controlled by the computer

[GTSBoy]

The only input I have is that it won't be a "normal injector" used to get the fuel into the exhaust manifold.

Think about it.

[MJTru]

The only input I have is that it won't be a "normal injector" used to get the fuel into the exhaust manifold.

Think about it.

Yes crossed my mind. Took me back to mechanical fuel injection. Injectors that are placed right in the combustion cambers.

[MJTru]

I need to find a fourm or link that speaks about the system more in detail. There must be a way to get this done. I think I'm going to start going to car shows and visiting race tracks in the states more often. This topic seems to be a secret topic of most just don't do it.

[MJTru]

I found a company that has somthing for sale. I have contacted them for help has anyone heard of them.

http://brewedmotors.com/performance-exhaust/antilag-secondary-air-injection-kit-rally-als

[pol1on1]

Ahhh the nice bang bang great for Friday night club cruise and see how many head turns you get including the police.. FUN

I did find something that got me really interested in but never looked into it as I got no car to play with.

But I hope you like the two links that I added.

FULL BOOST AT IDLE

http://m.youtube.com/user/isentropical

This is a link to that zero lag channel 2 vid in their

Http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/2619/External-Combustion-Rocket-Zero-lag-Teaser.aspx

Edited October 6, 2014 by pol1on1

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

most modern aftermarket ECUs have launch control + anti lag..

there are two main types of "launch control"

1. just a simple 2-step, meaning there's a fuel cut at a specific RPM when the vehicle speed is set less than say 5 km/h. Once the wheels start turning, i.e. post launch the motor can freely rev up to the 2nd rev limiter
2. 2-step rev limiter AND ignition retard & enrichment, this is achieved similar to a 2-step however as the engine RPM reaches the launch rpm window say between 3800 ~ 4000rpm it will retard the timing by 'x' amount (configurable) and inject more fuel.. this will allow the combustion to occur after top dead centre meaning it will happen in the exhaust side inside of the cylinder chamber causing this hectic bangssssss and will spool the turbo

Each ECU is different... Haltech & Megasquirt for example have absolute ignition retard.. so when the RPM & vehicle speed & water temp meet the right conditions timing will be set to a absolute value say 5 degrees ATDC and inject say 5% more fuel for that load point resulting in a bang and spooling the turbo.

Adaptronic however uses a slightly different way to achieve this.. it blankets a retard value.. say if we apply 20 degrees it will go to that load cell and minus off 20 degrees.. so if the load cell is 15 and we apply the 20 retard.. it means the final timing value is 5 deg ATDC.. ..

FWIW.. I have my setup to retard & richen up given these values (vehicle speed < 10km/h, retard & enrich 3800rpm+, ignition cut at 4000rpm) which results in a few bangs and flames out of the gate & exhaust.. this gives me about 1bar boost for launch.

Of course it's totally useless on the streets as once the wheels spin it will just bake tyres and when you put it into 2nd the wheels are still just spinning and you end up going no where... I set it up for the drag strip where it's stickier however haven't had tthe chance to test it out,.

[TheGeniusMoose]

I use the launch control in my Haltech Platinum Pro and it works amazing even on the street set to 4500RPM with Federal RSRs.

[MJTru]

Im planing on using my ps2000 for my drag gtr but will have to find a good tuner close to me. Thats a small problem because ill have to ship my car to Tampa florida by boat. R32 entry to the states can be hard. But I will work it out. Im think of letting Martin at RS Enthalpy do the set up for me. But here is what im being told by the guys at brewed motor sport. Here is what they said and I would like to know if anyone here has heard of hacking a power fc for launch control.

" These are both rally style ALS, the easiest way to set up a drag style antilag would be for me to tune the car in person as I have a special cable and software to "hack" the power FC and add a Drag style antilag launch feature."

A special cable and hacking for anti lag launching. Has to be here in person to do it. What you guys think about that.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Sounds silly, sounds like they're going to plug up a Bee R and it also sounds like you didn't read my post

[MJTru]

Sounds silly, sounds like they're going to plug up a Bee R and it also sounds like you didn't read my post

I read your post mate.

I just have alot of PFC and i was woundering if that was only me that thought it sounded funny. I will be going with the ps2000 ecu as I already have it and dont feel like I need another ecu right now.

I liked how you broke it down. Thanks for that mate. Trust me if he tried a Bee R I would know. Lol. But it doesn't seen like right now that im going to go another route other than using the ecu to launch the car. The method that dumps fuel and retard the timing for max boost. Put it simple.

I was told that I could use NOS to bring the boost up on the line but cant get around how that would work on the line with no load free reving to gain boost then let the clutch out. Would the NOS damage the motor. ??

The only way im thinking is a miss firing system just like the method I mentioned to explode the gases in the manifold. Hmmmm. The gears are turning now.

Thanks mate. Good stuff.

[Dan_J]

it seems one can run a safer to more maxed anti-lag setup, the nistune forum has some answers below

http://forum.nistune.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=458&sid=8f823c2e989a8755f3bdaf7e68a22255&start=30

[Tonba]

I am looking at running the 'bang bang' rally style of anti-lag (REAL antilag, not this 2-step which is a launch control) on my evo.

Other then increased fuel and ignition retard at high RPM and low load, you also need something to keep the throttle somewhat open (to get decent air running through the motor and into the exhaust).

In addition to that (for when the car is moving) you need to setup a 'rotational idle' to help keep RPM in check.. otherwise the engine will 'run-away' which is what you don't want..

Yes it is hard on turbos.. but instant boost will be amazing. I am hoping that something like a Borg Warner EFR can handle it, as once those turbines get a bit of heat into them they are actually stronger.


http://www.tomson.com.pl/product-eng-1487-Throttle-Kicker-for-Mitsubishi-Lancer-Evo-7-9.html

^ Something like this Throttle kicker is needed to get some airflow into the engine...

Edited October 14, 2014 by Tonba