300Gt Auto To Manual

[timmymacg]

I'm looking to get my v35 300gt converted to manaul pretty soon. I have been quoted $3350 drive in/out. Does this sound reasonable? Also will the car drive like a stock manual in regards to throttle response? Any thoughts or opinions appreciated.

[GTSBoy]

Price is reasonable. Box + flywheel + clutch + lots of other bits and pieces, plus labour ad some profit. Seems fair.

As to the throttle response question....unless there is some massive difference between auto and manual ECUs......it should be alright. You might want to look into Nistuning the ECU so you can get rid of the fault codes that you're quite likely to be left with.

[timmymacg]

Thanks for the reply. What I meant with throttle response is that it is a little laggy as it is. I wasnt sure if this was due to it being auto as this is myfirst auto I have owned. If it were to retain this lag when converted it could be difficult to drive, especially from standstill.

[timmymacg]

And with the fault codes, are they likely to cause problems? This isn't something I want to do if it is going to cause ALOT of headaches.

[GTSBoy]

I'm just assuming that you'll have fault codes from missing stuff. Is it important? Do you want your check engine light to be on all the time so you can't know when there's a real problem?

I put an auto RB25DET Neo into my car with a manual. So it was missing the automatic gearbox, the traction control and the ABS. All these things raised fault codes. All gotten rid of by switching them off in Nistune.

[89CAL]

Are they electronic throttle? Ive never been a huge fan of electronic throttles because they arent instant. Some are very good these days but im oldschool and like a cable throttle. This may cause a little lag

Auto's generally lag a little more when planting your foot because the transmission may have to kickdown etc but its never usually too bad. Because manual is a little like cable throttle (in the way that you are completely in control) it will respond better. This is just general thoughts, ive never driven a v35 in either auto or manual but cant imagine its to different from everything else

[GTSBoy]

I don't think the VQ35 is drive-by-wire throttle. The latter ones (like the VQ37) may well be....but the old VQ35 is barely a newer control system than the RB25Neo.

[89CAL]

Ah rightio. I just can't stand electronic throttle lol. Well the ones I have driven anyway. Never feels quite as direct as it should

[scotty nm35]

Most VQ's built after 2001 were electronic throttle, the 3L direct injection motor is one of these. I think you will find this conversion isn't possible without a LOT of work and a standalone ecu, like a Haltech or similar. Pretty sure the 3L never came out manual, and you would need to change all the ecu's to manual.

This thread should really be in the V35 section to get input from the VQ guys.

Search for the brake cut mod, this will improve the throttle response for $0 cost.

[sonicz]

Ah rightio. I just can't stand electronic throttle lol. Well the ones I have driven anyway. Never feels quite as direct as it should

You should try electronic throttle + electronic steering + auto steer (actually turns the car for you around bends without you even touching the steering wheel)+ auto brake (as you get close to a car in front)

My uncle got a A5 and you don't tend to feel anything about how the car is driving. Its like any input you give has to go through a committee and if they approve they will do something similar to what you wanted.

But by far the worst thing about electronic throttle is the fact it seems to keep revs high about 2 seconds after you completely let go of the pedal. Not sure how they think having a sensor in the pedal then a motor to open the throttle is better than a steel cable.

Edited October 27, 2014 by sonicz

[scotty nm35]

Everything is electronic these days, some are better than others. Being able to remap the stock ecu is a bonus, that way the throttle curve can be adjusted perfectly.

My throttle snaps closed now I have the Fcon, but that puts load on the over-run clutch in the auto.

[sonicz]

While i can see the potential of electronic throttles is greater than DBW because in theory you the ECU can perfectly control the AFR, I just haven't driven one I have liked, and IMO it just adds a complication that doesn't need to be there. All the ones I have driven have just been clumsy and dim-witted and never behaved how you expect.

I mean what was wrong with having a steel cable and a Throttle position sensor at the throttle body? The ECU still knows exactly how much throttle is open and you just have avoided a placing an electronic component that can add lag or problems.

I also see elimination kits that revert back to DBW for cars that have fully electronic throttles.

http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/partdetails/HPF/Engine/Throttle_Cables/Drive_By_Wire_Elimination/18966

Edited October 28, 2014 by sonicz

[GTSBoy]

The real reasons for using DBW throttles are;

1) so that you can eliminate the need to run a physical cable. Means the engine package has one less physical connection to the chassis that needs to be engineered. Pick up engine from chassis A, transplant into chassis B without having to design and route a throttle cable,

2) so that traction control is easily achieved without having to add more throttles and crap (25Neo, anyone?),

3) so that the various drive modes (economy, sport, track, wanker) can be selected and activated with little more than a twist of a knob,

4) so that valet mode, learner driver mode, etc can all be done the same way,

5) so that the ECU and TCU can work together to get perfect blipped gear changes both up and down. It's not about the ECU knowing how open the throttle is, because they've always known that from the TPS. So not about mixture control or any of that either (because throttle opening % has had very little to do with mixture on almost all OEM injection systems except for accel enrichment - mixture mostly being taken care of by MAP or MAF)

The fact that many OEM systems are dull is not because of a deficiency in the capabilities of the systems. They don't lag because they are slow by nature. They lag because of deliberate decisions made by the engineers - most of which have to do with emissions and fuel efficiency these days.

Edited October 28, 2014 by GTSBoy

[sonicz]

1. Cost cutting is probably the reason here. I don't think the car designers care whether the engine is more easily transplantable.

2,4, 5.. Yup makes all this easier.

3 .And your last point. You do realise that all these things are just heading toward more and more electronic governing of driving? And I don't mean in the engine control sense. Its speed restrictions for learners or valets modes now, in the future to be restrictions for all drivers including you almost everywhere you go. IF you like driving you are shooting yourself in the foot going all electronic. You will probably have mandatory GPS based speed/acceleration etc restrictions going into your car in the not too distant future, and all these electronic devices between you and the engine just make it that much easier to implement.

[GTSBoy]

1. Cost cutting is probably the reason here. I don't think the car designers care whether the engine is more easily transplantable.

2,4, 5.. Yup makes all this easier.

3 .And your last point. You do realise that all these things are just heading toward more and more electronic governing of driving? And I don't mean in the engine control sense. Its speed restrictions for learners or valets modes now, in the future to be restrictions for all drivers including you almost everywhere you go. IF you like driving you are shooting yourself in the foot going all electronic. You will probably have mandatory GPS based speed/acceleration etc restrictions going into your car in the not too distant future, and all these electronic devices between you and the engine just make it that much easier to implement.

With ref to 1.....yes, manufacturers care very much aboout this sort of thing. They don't care about Joe Average doing a transplant. I'm talking about all the cases where the same engine turns up iin many different chassis, both from the same manufacturer and also others. Kias and Hyundais, upcoming BMW/Toyota, Chrylser/Merc, etc etc.

With ref to 3....well, yes. But there's no point complaining about it or using it as a reason to not have an e-throttle right now. They're not going to force retrofit all those restrictions you mention to older cars. You just won't be able to buy a new car that doesn't have that sort of stuff bundled into it. But your chance to prevent that auttomotive armageddon passed a few decades ago when you should have become, simultaneously, a senior automotive industry influencer and staged a coup to take over Australia as Dictator for Life Sonicz.

[scotty nm35]

Tin foil hat time.

Have you driven a new euro sonicz? Dat dsg crack between gears, torque vectoring, most of the cars released these days would munch a modified skyline on the road or track, wet or dry, and can be driven by your grandma once you get bored of thrashing it.

Yes they are trying to make cars safe and able to be driven by any retard, which is a good thing when you see the abilities of most drivers these days.

[89CAL]

Must admit, my girlfriends Polo GTI makes some nice sounds with the DSG and they shift so nicely. Still not a huge fan of the electronic throttle on it, but it beats her old Astra. Having an auto/DSG makes Electronic throttles less of a pain too. If you have ever driven one in a manual it is def worse then having a cable throttle.

I'm still out on Electronic throttles. But they are getting there. And as said above, I'm sure in something more performance driven than the stuff I have played with, the electronic throttle is much nicer.

I'm a bit oldschool, I quite like driving a car with no power steering or brake booster for fun, but as an everyday driver, I'd much rather have all the new stuff

[sonicz]

You Gotta be pretty naive or delusional to think thats tinfoil hat stuff. It may not be right around the corner or while we are young enough to care, but anyone with half a brain knows thats where the world is heading.

A new Euro as in new European car or Honda accord euro lol?

I've driven a 2013 Audi S5 and a 2005 ish BMW M3. A few regular VW jettas and golfs here and there as well. I hated the Audio cos all the electronic crap made the car feel completely disconnected from the driver. I would not say it would munch a modified GTR in terms of feel or even speed for that matter. Sure you can drive it fast same way you can drive fast in a video game, but you have to point it into a corner and hope everything will be ok, cos you sure as hell don't feel like you are in control. And I'm not sure how much I would trust all those electronic components to go around a bend where moving out of your line would mean disaster. The steering feel was horrible, like you are steering with rope, ditto to throttle. No surprise really when you have no solid connection between the steering wheel and wheels.

I liked the BMW for the most part though, but I'm pretty sure that had a solid connection between the steering wheel and the wheels. The SMG gearbox was solid but I wouldn't say comforting or seamless. Throttle was very good. I haven't driven many new sports cars, but so far every new "electronic-ized" component I have seen has been a step back IMO. Clumsy wafty and unsettling is the best way I can describe it.

Edited November 2, 2014 by sonicz

[GTSBoy]

I've driven a 2013 Audi S5 and a 2005 ish BMW M3. A few regular VW jettas and golfs here and there as well. I hated the Audio cos all the electronic crap made the car feel completely disconnected from the driver. I would not say it would munch a modified GTR in terms of feel or even speed for that matter. Sure you can drive it fast same way you can drive fast in a video game, but you have to point it into a corner and hope everything will be ok, cos you sure as hell don't feel like you are in control. And I'm not sure how much I would trust all those electronic components to go around a bend where moving out of your line would mean disaster. The steering feel was horrible, like you are steering with rope, ditto to throttle. No surprise really when you have no solid connection between the steering wheel and wheels.

That's all just standard Audi.