Upgrades For Response?

[Deza3000]

Hey guyzzzzzzzzzzzz

Was wanting some low end response from my evo, (to gain some better initial acceleration from a stop), was thinking of cosworth 264 camshafts and tomei valve springs...

Initially i had planned on doing fuel pump and injector upgrade for an e85 tune, but thought of doing cams first so i can get more out of the tune. Ive also been told that ill get more response out of the car by switching to e85. Thinking whether to just dump the whole camshafts/valve springs idea and save a few pennies and just get the e85 tune, or to go for the camshafts as well.

Anyone got any suggestions on how i go about this?

Currently running 180awkw @21psi on 98 octane stock turbo tuned for response.
Current mods:

- turbo back exhaust
- bigger intake pipe between maf and turbo

- HKS panel

- Tune

I dont really plan on going hard out on the top end power, that would just be a bonus, im really keen for some good response and decent gains along the rev range(especially low to mid).

Cheers (:

[Hadouken]

More response? Maybe get a big block v8.

But seriously. My mate has a evo 8. They have great response.

E85 will give you a fatter power band. I know you evo guys love wacking cams in. But if you are strapped for cash get a flex tune. Changes the car immensely.

[Deza3000]

More response? Maybe get a big block v8.

LOL v8s zzzzzzz, not a fan

Haha yea it responds great! But in comparison to some new cars that i have come across (335i, audi, c63 amg, even evo 10s),my initial throttle response/takeoff seems so mediocre, i hit power at 3000rpm, losing a bit of time on takeoff. Guess the AWD also has a part to play, and the fact that i hate launching.

Hahahaha ive seen some evos go hard with cam and turbo upgrades but not sure how much of an improvement camshafts are without other bolt ons (i.e. bigger turbo), i dont know if cams will justify the cost considering what i want.

Flex tune is a tune for a variation of ethenol levels yea? Senses the amount of ethanol in the system and adjusts timing accordingly?? I was actually keen on doing that for a few months, cant make up my mind haha.

[Hadouken]

Yes. That is what a flex tune is. 98 - e85

C63 amg is a v8. Everything you drove except the evo 10 has higher capacity motors. So there is No point comparing Apples to oranges. If you really want response then get a tiny turbo. Done

[Deza3000]

Yes. That is what a flex tune is. 98 - e85

Sweet, ill see how i go with a flex tune.

Do you recommend any fuel pumps? I was going to buy the walbro 455lph e85 pump, but apparently they draw too much voltage ?? Fuel pump relayyy maybe? Or different brand?

C63 amg is a v8. Everything you drove except the evo 10 has higher capacity motors. So there is No point comparing Apples to oranges. If you really want response then get a tiny turbo. Done

Yea i realize that, I just assumed its the RWD drivetrain and valve timings that made them so responsive, considering the BMW 120d is also pretty responsive. Evo 9 and 10 also have the variable valve timing (mivec) as well as a much bigger turbo than its predecessors with very minor turbo lag, hence why i thought cams would do the trick. Anyways flex tune all the way! I have a united that supplies race fuel(which i assume is e85) near my house so thats convenient.

[Hadouken]

You need to check to see if that is e85. It might be 100 Ron fuel.

Maybe it draws too much voltage for the stock wiring. But run New wiring to the pump with a relay and it would be sweet. Probably best to read up what the evo guys like to run. Walbro make a few e85 pumps.

[Nismo 3.2ish]

As Hadouken said and most things I have read on the site would indicate, smaller turbos and smaller cam duration for response , under 260s, maybe 250 ish seems to get them going pretty quick.

I think Mick"s cams are in the 250 range and he said they are great for response, hope my memory is working, sorry Mick haha?

.

[Deza3000]

Maybe it draws too much voltage for the stock wiring. But run New wiring to the pump with a relay and it would be sweet. Probably best to read up what the evo guys like to run. Walbro make a few e85 pumps.

No problem, just spoke to a tuner, they said the exact same thing you did, new wiring and a relay, 100 bucks for all that including installing the pump so should be sweet, would of done it myself if it was just simply swapping out the pump but ahh well. Rather get it done right the first time.

As Hadouken said and most things I have read on the site would indicate, smaller turbos and smaller cam duration for response , under 260s, maybe 250 ish seems to get them going pretty quick.

I think Mick"s cams are in the 250 range and he said they are great for response, hope my memory is working, sorry Mick haha?

I actually just did some research on the turbos, turns out the evo 9 and 8mr turbo features the titanium compressor wheel, which is why they spool much faster than the 4/5/6/7/8 (excluding 6.5), funny thing is my turbo only has the 9.8t housing which is smaller than the 10.5t housing on the 9. (by which according to the laws of physics smaller housing should spool faster?)

I was leaning between 256 or 264, ill see how i go. Would i need to retune the car if i get cams done on a later date?

[discopotato03]

No , only the 9RS got the turbo with the Titanium Aluminide turbine and Magnesium compressor wheel . Can't remember what the part numbers are but the second version of that turbo is better because it has a "Super Back" compressor wheel while the earlier ones are flat back and can fail if pushed hard .

All Evo 9s used a turbo centre housing with a larger integral compressor housing back plate and its matching compressor housing uses a larger diameter diffuser section . I believe the Evo8 MRs and all 9s used a revised 10.5cm turbine housing with a mirror imaged "D" shaped waste gate outlet that was supposed to flow better than the twin holes and flat valves that say an Evo 6 10.5cm turbine housing has . I think the later ones were supposed to be less likely to crack than the early 6 style ones .

Lots of detail things changed from Evo 8 to Evo 9 engines and it was aimed at having a bit more low down torque with better consumption and emissions .

The 9s were reasonably heavy for a 2L car and a combination of different head/variable inlet cam timing/turbo changes/more boost/closer ratio six speed box made a better overall system than earlier Evos had . Also each 4G63T from about E6 on had better rods and pistons to cope with the boost increases , from memory 9s had something like 18 lbs boost std and the 10s about 21 pounds . 

Also MiVec was more than just the variable inlet cam timing , revised (enlarged) cooling passages between the head and block - and the heads deck was thicker . They use motorbike sized spark plugs and improved coolant flow around the hot sides of the chambers and exhaust ports supposedly made them a little more detonation resistant .

In the US most people don't play with anything less than an Evo 9 based turbo because you get better housings which get the most out of std or larger wheels .

Those 9RS turbos come on a little earlier and have a bit better transient response because of the lighter wheels less inertia to overcome . The TiAl turbines with fail at high boost levels because the bonding between the wheel and shaft can only take so much loading . Probably smart to run std Evo 9 boost levels with them which is quick enough on the street I reckon .

A couple of years back an Aussie won in class a Pikes Peak event with a very well put together standard sized Evo 8 turbo , the proof of the pudding is the run times not the boost or kilowatt numbers .  

Just my 2c , cheers A .

 

   

[AngryRB]

A well setup boost controller like an apexi avcr can bring the boost on earlier and harder, my own experience but with RB.

[Deza3000]

Haha i remember this thread! Yea my evo was actually running a blown cat for almost 15 months which is why the response was so shocking. Got that fixed, got the car re-tuned and the thing just goes.