Fmic Info.

[MJTru]

Hi guys please look below. I found this FMIC and im woundering if anyone has used one like this before. Its really big and ive seen one like it on drag cars. I noticed they say its good for 35 psi at 500hp. Thats a little low on hp ratings is it not for something so big?

http://www.kaze-speed.com/89-02-front-mount-intercooler-nissan-r32-r33-r34-gtr-skyline.html

[Hadouken]

a) That thing is rediculous

b) You'd have to cut f**k loads out of your bar and probably reo to make that thing fit

c) how much power are you making?

d) I dont expect quality for a $200 intercooler

What's wrong with running a Hybrid or even just japs cooling pro intercooler? Tried and proven is all im trying to get across

[GTSBoy]

Well.....he IS in the US and Carib states. So Just Jap is not as easy as it sounds.

On the actual topic....

I would think that a 120mm thick core is a bit unreasonable. The resistance to flow of the ambient air across the core will be a problem. The distribution of the hot air from the inlet end tank across the end of the core will possibly be a problem. You need well designed inlets and tanks to make that sort of thing work. And per what he ^ said......you don't often get that at the $200 price range.

[Hadouken]

ooo, sorry, I keep forgetting the diverse culture of SAU

[MJTru]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing to here guys. For the price ill hang it in my shop before I install it. Lol. What would be nice is to buy it and test it up against some trust units I have..

Ok ok. So one thing ive learnt in life is to follow my gut feels. What funny is ive seen this fmic on lots of drag cars. Well to be fair there is now why of really identifying the brand. Size wise its the same. So hear is a question. For drag racing and I really dont want to do a water to air unit. What a good FMIC for 800hp goal. Ill run the car hard at 600. But willing to crank it up at some point.

Edited November 29, 2014 by MJTru

[MJTru]

I looked at one installed. The only mod from what I heard that needs to be made is the hood latch support bracket. And trim a small edge on the bumper.

[MJTru]

Here is a photo I found online.

[Hadouken]

Are we talking engine hp? or whp?

[MJTru]

Engine hp sorry.

[Hadouken]

Are you on a budget? A 100mm cooler will be good for your application. There are a lot of jap ones but they cost big money

[Kanaric]

Well.....he IS in the US and Carib states. So Just Jap is not as easy as it sounds.

On the actual topic....

I would think that a 120mm thick core is a bit unreasonable. The resistance to flow of the ambient air across the core will be a problem. The distribution of the hot air from the inlet end tank across the end of the core will possibly be a problem. You need well designed inlets and tanks to make that sort of thing work. And per what he ^ said......you don't often get that at the $200 price range.

I live in the US and have no problems buying the parts. What you pay in taxes or VAT from europeon distributers we don't have to pay.

Bought a Blitz intercooler myself for $500 from Japan with a bunch of other parts. Shipping was $200 but saved a ton of money than buying domestic.

Japspeed in the UK is a great source for parts for Americans. The shipping is cheap. They have a decent intercooler for sale as well as downpipe. OP should check them out.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Kanaric

[MJTru]

Today I spent some time pulling out all my intercooler and doing a comparison on them after like 5 hours of reading up what makes a good intercooler. Even came across an old book I have on turbo systems and it was very detailed on how to make or choose a good intercooler for almost any application. Most importantly. The location and size of the area thats will be exposed to ambient air. Next it talked about the fins and there designs. That has a whole lot to do with efficiency. If you can see straight through the fins its not the best design. Some are big and look like this /\ others are like TT design and prove to be better. Plates are also design to dissipate the heat and integrated It seems that the actual core is way more important than the side tanks are. Well not entirely. All the tanks have to do is deliver the charged air equally to all the tubes. The core is key with the right design fins. I will post a FMIC its a Hybrid by apexi. Its crap in comparison to what I learned even my trust unit isnt as good that came from japan on my r33. Whats funny is I looked at a cheap a** ebay unit and it fell closest to the recommendation I found. Next it spoke about the thickness of the core the rule is thinner is better but most people dont have much room for space. There was a percentage used to reflect the efficiency loss after every inch in thickness used. I can seem to recall it right now. Next was tank tank location. To minimize pressure loss. Take a rb25 FMIC for exsample. It would be way better keeping the same area to have the tanks to the top and bottom of the intercooler insted of the sides. It would breath a whole lot better with less pressure drop or loss. Do to more tubes being run up and down rather than across. Lots more entry points. But all of this revolves around space. Its was very interesting to just visually do a comparison and see that visually your paying for. Hmm.

Just thought I would mention this.

Edited November 29, 2014 by MJTru

[MJTru]

Apexi hybrid

[GTSBoy]

Take a rb25 FMIC for exsample. It would be way better keeping the same area to have the tanks to the top and bottom of the intercooler insted of the sides. It would breath a whole lot better with less pressure drop or loss. Do to more tubes being run up and down rather than across. Lots more entry points. But all of this revolves around space. Its was very interesting to just visually do a comparison and see that visually your paying for. Hmm.

Just thought I would mention this.

Sadly, it might seem that way, but it is absolutely wrong. With long top and bottom tanks it is VERY hard to get even distribution of the air through all the core tubes. That would be bad enough if it were the only problem. But the big killer is that the short run through the tubes, coupled with the potentially lower velocity (due to more tubes) results in substantially decreased convective heat transfer coefficient on the inside of the tubes. Not a good thing. The benefit from lower pressure drop is more than offset by the thermal penalty. These types of coolers are not to be considered. The first thing you do on a Supra that has one stock is replace with a cross flow core.

[MJTru]

Hmm. Interesting stuff. Its nice see different points of views on this subject. Good stuff.

Below I've posted 2 core types looking at the fins you can see right away what im talking about. Getting the right angle to take the photos was a bi**h. The top one is a cheap ebay core the bottom one is the so call apexi hybrid core. The ebay cheap core has a way better cooling efficiency than the apexi core. This is ETS’ Michael Roark understanding. And all these guys do is build intercoolers. Now these fins if looked at closely the staggering of the design is the more efficient setup you can imagine when you can see straight through the air crossing the fins are shadowed by the very first one thus leading to a very low efficiency rate the thicker it gets. whats funny to me, keeping an opened mind here is just visual looking at the the Japanese stuff. They are a little bit better from brand to brand. But in short if you dont know what to look for all that money spent really doesn't mean nothing if your not getting what you expect. These results or opinions needs to be proven to have any relevance to me personally speaking. Let me know what you guys think.

[GTSBoy]

There are so many factors to juggle at the same time though.

True, the finer pitch of the external fins on the cheapy will provide more surface area for cooling. Good. But it will also obstruct flow more. On a thin core, it will put up a certain amount of resistance to flow, still allowing a qty of air to flow through to the radiator. The Jap core can be a lot thicker before it will restrict the external flow to the same extent, and so will therefore support more horsepower worth of air on the inside for the same effect on the rest of the cooling system on the outside.

Then you have to remember that air to air intercoolers on cars are very seldom run at steady state. They are for the most part just a heat sink where the mass of the core and tanks heats up as the charge comes through and then sheds heat after the 10 or 15 seconds of full boost is over.

Then you have to keep in mind that you might use a completely different core style if you're doing a V mount setup compared to if you were stacking the cores in front of each other. And so on, and so forth.

Really, when "designing" an intercooler system for a car, what you are really doing is designing the whole cooling system for everything. You have to balance all the effects. Otherwise you just close your eyes and spray parts at the car (like nearly everyone does) and cross your fingers and hope it works.

[MJTru]

Interesting. As well as appropriated. I thought that same thing today as to the fact that it reduces the air that passes the fins. But today by accident I pleaced each cooler next to each other. Just for storage sake. I was planning on putting them away later. As the day passed by there was lots of times where I passed the intercoolers doing this and that. What I noticed passing them was even the better fin design would let air pass the core. Cause at different angles I still could see light on the other side, well the cheap ebay core that is. But at a bigger angle I could see straight through the apexi core. At only certain angle was I able to see through the ebay unit. In short I can see this unit working the ambient air more for cooling. What would be great is to have this topic using the Internet as a minimum, to prove the characteristics of what is need for a good intercooler.by no means am I trying to be difficult or ignorant but fair.

[MJTru]

Top is ebay, bottom is apexi. We need to know what to buy by results or design at a minimum. Just to say hybrid or cooler pro has no relevance is it not??? Intercooler wise.

[MJTru]

I will soon do a real time result to help out using these two intercoolers. Both photos were taken a about the same angle.

[Badgaz]

these should be like anything really, they make the bloody things and have to pressure test them but can't share the results of the pressure drop nor cooling efficiency...instead they leave it up to the garage modifier to figure it out....