R32 Gtst - Track Car

[MBS206]

I think in order to work out how best to properly fix the subframe, you need to understand what the forces are doing specifically to break it.

IE, does it appear to be like a purely leveraging issue, such as where that arm attaches to the hub, and pushing straight to the rear of the car (And therefore, is the same happening to the top attachments).

Or are you braking so hard it's more of a twisting of the arms around the axis of the of the wheels rotation (Bottom bars going backward, and the top bars going forward).

 

Depending on what you're allowed to do in your class, and how things are breaking, you have a few options:

Some plating over the points that are presently breaking. Thickening up around the mount points. Strategically placing plating in specific orientations too to keep as light weight as possible, but provide as much strength as possible.

Other thought, is to go an entirely custom subframe. At the same time you could do some redesigning of the arm angles etc to help improve / take advantage of or at least mitigate these extra forces.

 

[couchboy]

Maybe contact the Michelle from extreme gtr surely they would of had the same problem.

[No Crust Racing]

Yep, just start with plates/washers and see how it holds up, poor standard Nissan frame was not designed for that loading. 

[bcozican]

Castor boxes are fine - they are well braced but yes prob need to relook and add

agree on accessing the actual cause we are 90% its the horizontal load but good thgts on the twisitng

initially much bracing will have to be added - have an event in 10 days odd so do that

the GTR subframe is totally different and although Brads red rocket wasnt allowed to use ABS he is as hard as anyone on the brakes and still did bend a frame like this

alas - there is no 'off the shelf' chromoly frame to purchase so may get to the point of custom - get a 3D scan and made

 

I do not know why Nissan engineers did think of all this stuff over 30 years ago - its ridiculous really 😅

 

I used to wonder why you didnt see cars similar to this or more out at more events - Im getting to know why - its tough just keeping them together

Ie: Even with chromoly front spindles in the hubs to reduce deflection under load wheel bears are are consumable ever 3 or 4 outings now

[robbo_rb180]

5 minutes ago, bcozican said:

I do not know why Nissan engineers did think of all this stuff over 30 years ago - its ridiculous really 😅

 

I used to wonder why you didnt see cars similar to this or more out at more events - Im getting to know why - its tough just keeping them together

Ie: Even with chromoly front spindles in the hubs to reduce deflection under load wheel bears are are consumable ever 3 or 4 outings now

Its the same with newer cars too. 

Spend more time maintaining and fixing than driving them. Its expected pushing them so hard, if you didn't go as hard you  wouldn't get the same enjoyment.
 

[MBS206]

11 hours ago, robbo_rb180 said:

Its the same with newer cars too. 

Spend more time maintaining and fixing than driving them. Its expected pushing them so hard, if you didn't go as hard you  wouldn't get the same enjoyment.
 

Don't go as hard, spend less time and money fixing, spend more time at the track

[MBS206]

Do you ha e any photos of the damage before you've been repairing it?

 

Are there any other areas with damage occuring, IE, if you strip all the other suspension, are there any other mounts bending or elongating?

What about bushes/joints?

[bcozican]

no photos of damage atm - - Ive jus bought a new subframe each time - one is sitting in back of my garage somewhere one is still in the car abut to get taken out

had a look everywhere else - no mounting point issues

Just from WTAC new ikea formula tie rod ends both side have massive play, the J arm coupling to hub is busted on the driver side and one rear lca rose joint has too much play in it 

combination or braking and aero I suspect

glad Ive been talking about adding braking and we are adding more aero now too 🙄

[MBS206]

3 hours ago, bcozican said:

no photos of damage atm - - Ive jus bought a new subframe each time - one is sitting in back of my garage somewhere one is still in the car abut to get taken out

had a look everywhere else - no mounting point issues

Just from WTAC new ikea formula tie rod ends both side have massive play, the J arm coupling to hub is busted on the driver side and one rear lca rose joint has too much play in it 

combination or braking and aero I suspect

glad Ive been talking about adding braking and we are adding more aero now too 🙄

Get rid of all that play.

Especially out near the hubs. If you have play, as you jump on the anchors all the play will be getting taken up, and it will be doing so like a sledge hammer on the end of the arm, and shoving impact forces all over the place.

[robbo_rb180]

10 hours ago, bcozican said:

no photos of damage atm - - Ive jus bought a new subframe each time - one is sitting in back of my garage somewhere one is still in the car abut to get taken out

had a look everywhere else - no mounting point issues

Just from WTAC new ikea formula tie rod ends both side have massive play, the J arm coupling to hub is busted on the driver side and one rear lca rose joint has too much play in it 

combination or braking and aero I suspect

glad Ive been talking about adding braking and we are adding more aero now too 🙄

😮

Time for beefier rose joints then. Need some one to do load calculations and see how big you really need.

[Komdotkom]

On 16/11/2023 at 11:38 AM, bcozican said:

Ie: Even with chromoly front spindles in the hubs to reduce deflection under load wheel bears are are consumable ever 3 or 4 outings now

Let me know if you can get a better deal out of Brypar for his uprights. I got a price of him recently which was frankly insulting. $8500 plus shipping for a pair, I recall when they were $4k (which I'd happily pay). This would solve the wheel bearing issues.

I was looking at the front cross member in mine the other day and the first thought I had was to lower the steering rack so that engine and therefore mass centroid axis could be lowered. I'm sure the internet experts and armchair racers will chime in here about steering geometry but my fabricator is ex 888 Racing so has half a clue about this stuff.

[GTSBoy]

4 hours ago, Komdotkom said:

I'm sure the internet experts and armchair racers will chime in here about steering geometry

Yeah, about that...

[MBS206]

On 11/24/2023 at 6:35 AM, Komdotkom said:

Let me know if you can get a better deal out of Brypar for his uprights. I got a price of him recently which was frankly insulting. $8500 plus shipping for a pair, I recall when they were $4k (which I'd happily pay). This would solve the wheel bearing issues.

I was looking at the front cross member in mine the other day and the first thought I had was to lower the steering rack so that engine and therefore mass centroid axis could be lowered. I'm sure the internet experts and armchair racers will chime in here about steering geometry but my fabricator is ex 888 Racing so has half a clue about this stuff.

I was planning on chiming in with...

Triple888 fabricator means he knows how to use the tools and put shit together properly (hopefully). But normally all the fun things like steering geometry and what the fabricator needs to do is worked out by an engineer... 

That's my understanding at the Triple888 level of V8Supercars...

[Neil]

Before I did anything, I'd have a conversation with Brad Sherriff out a tassie. He would have gone through the same shit.

 

[bcozican]

On 24/11/2023 at 4:35 AM, Komdotkom said:

Let me know if you can get a better deal out of Brypar for his uprights. I got a price of him recently which was frankly insulting. $8500 plus shipping for a pair, I recall when they were $4k (which I'd happily pay). This would solve the wheel bearing issues.

yeah thats getting fairly ridiculous for mine and most peoples budget also. 100% appreciate it might actually cost that much to make + + on top and all that but for the amount it 'cures' in terrms of some lighter, pad knock and some bearing issue it doesn't add up for me

there is place in NZ doing billet knuckles the same that got mentioned a few weeks ago to me as being pretty decent had a look once was in the $4k's i think.. but now I cant think of them

On 24/11/2023 at 4:35 AM, Komdotkom said:

On 25/11/2023 at 9:33 AM, Neil said:

Before I did anything, I'd have a conversation with Brad Sherriff out a tassie. He would have gone through the same shit.

 

 

na I spoken to that guy i dont trust him at ALL 

😅 jokes everyone its alright ... yes agree Ive got half his stuff etc in my car and goes alright

He does have a solution but not currently in my budget 

Edited November 26, 2023 by bcozican

[bcozican]

WA Time attack was cancelled this year there was to other major motorsport events on the same day / weekend and I think they just called it early to not make a big loss if no one turned up even though I think they wouldve still had an 80% + field ... alas no chance at lowering my PB at Barbagallo again yet (im not saying carco.com.au Raceway.. im just not ready for that )

Our State sprint series had their final round down in collie a track circa 2 - 2.5 hrs down from Perth. Great track techical, curb hop friendly and a little bumpy - all things not suited to my car haha

Ive barely been down there but this is where I blew my engine last year and not had good time on a few other occasions 

I took the time to go down a day early and got to do a few prac laps and find a groove ish - its was already hot 35 deg - not great

First noted - car really only liked doing 1.5 laps - by then the tyres were gone and it was starting to be o the edge of being hot but OK

Comp day - did 2 prac laps did a 71.X which is pretty solid using lowest power but driving pretty hard felt alright

The temp on the day was already rising and was going to be a hot on ended up hitting 41 deg !

So first timed run out the gate , only morning run lower temps might go OK , put a little boost into it all was going good but came out of a 2nd gear chicane at end of a straight planted it thought traction control and I as the steerer had it but dropped a wheel in the dirt spun around sat in sand / gravel till go pulled out 

Didnt get another run till after lunch by that time its was 35 deg again - ran lowest power drove hard but nothing really worked how it should brakes, tyres etc but solid result with a 72. X

From there just packed it up unfortunately, just too hot and running wouldnt go any faster and no reason

Ultimately very tough day - really should get this thing down into the low 70's at least but I think be tough to get much more out of it on this type track for me

 

Came way with 1st tin top and 2nd overall to a killer radical

 

the changes with the suspension re: sways and from others tweeks worked well for what I could feel on a lower speed track so happy with the way that progressed

 

thats me for a big year even though I didnt compete that much it was a very full year

The next changes and updates start Friday

Hopefully some more adventures, PB's and no doubt hair loss due to stress in FY '24

Edited November 26, 2023 by bcozican

[Komdotkom]

2 hours ago, bcozican said:

 

there is place in NZ doing billet knuckles the same that got mentioned a few weeks ago to me as being pretty decent had a look once was in the $4k's i think.. but now I cant think of them

 

Let me know if you want to hit them up for a group discount, $4k I can justify to myself.

[bcozican]

11 minutes ago, Komdotkom said:

Let me know if you want to hit them up for a group discount, $4k I can justify to myself.

I just remembered !

https://kiwicnc.com/en-au/products/nissan-r32-33-34-gtr-motorsport-uprights

little bit out on pricing though - rounding error

I sound like a performance workshop now 😆🤐

[Duncan]

19 minutes ago, bcozican said:

I just remembered !

https://kiwicnc.com/en-au/products/nissan-r32-33-34-gtr-motorsport-uprights

little bit out on pricing though - rounding error

I sound like a performance workshop now 😆🤐

Wow, they are pretty....

[Duncan]

....expensive